EK 1914 Named EK I 1914

[Vic Diehl]

I believe this cross engraving is 100% percent period and correct. Among the things I like are the layout, spelling and punctuation, correct style of the letters and numbers for the period, method of joining the letters and words and correct tool marks. Also, under the stereoscope at 20 power the wear and wear scratches that transverse the letters at different depths and time periods. I hope I can post a pic large enough for you to see the detail.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Vic Diehl

[Flyingdutchman]

Gentlemen,

unfortunately Vic missed a few things to explain here.

Beside the fact that this engraving has a few points and markings here and there it is important to understand that the term 'Kampfwagenabteilung' means nothing less than tank or as Germans would say from the 30's on, Panzer.

So we are looking here at an Iron Cross 1st class from the very few first tank crew-men from the Great War. The rarity of such a piece is amazing.

Just to add a little bit history to this picture. Of course it would be lovely from Vic to post pics from the front and from the case as well providing us with a few links about the tank attacks during the 2nd battle of the Somme in 1918.

Best;

Flyingdutchman

[Vic Diehl]

[Vic Diehl]

Obverse

[Vic Diehl]

Full reverse

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello Vic,

An absolutely amazing piece of history.

Thanks for taking the time to share it with us, and the video was most interesting.

Regards

Brian

[Billy G]

Vic,

Outstanding piece indeed, many thanks for sharing. I could see this piece causing someone to consider collecting EKs as a niche. Some guys have all the luck, & I know I ain't one of them!

[Vic Diehl]

Billy:

You get no sympathy from me, I know about the super rare stuff you are always turning up. Also, if my memory serves me correctly, you have a precious new member of your family that is worth more than a barrel of medals !!

Vic

[Vic Diehl]

We are closing in on Fritz. My esteemed colleague in Germany has found a communication NCO:

Fritz Hammer, born Januar, 2nd, 1891 in Reutlingen, Feldwebel Armee Telegraphen Abteilung, AOK.4

We do know that tank troops were pulled from a variety of other units, much like the early Aero units. Tankers came from artillery, motor corps, communication,etc. According to the Landships forum these tanksrs many times retained their old unit's uniforms and insignia. They were all issued the tanker coveralls.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Oooooohhhh... that sounds like a good lead... what was the crew break down in these ?

[Vic Diehl]

Chris, We will try to get that kind of crew information from the Deutsche Panzer Museum in Munster. As we find out we will post.

[Eric Stahlhut]

would it be possible to view the complete reverse of this cross in it's entirety? i am, as always, interested in the pin, catch, and hinge assemblies

[Vic Diehl]

Eric:

Here is the shot you requested. This cross is totally unmarked -- which I really like !!

Vic

[Chris Boonzaier]

hmmmm... may be paranoia on my side, but does that conform to a WW1 hinge and needle?

[Vic Diehl]

I am here to learn, now that would be interesting. With that engraving.

[Vic Diehl]

It is important to me that we keep digging at this cross and leave no question unanswered.

I have been told two time that the pin assembly is a period replacement.

Here is a closeup of the assembly.

[Vic Diehl]

Here is a 600 dpi scan of pin assembly

I know faking these engravings is rampant and almost a cottage industry. I am still liking this one as original.

[Vic Diehl]

1200 DPI

[Vic Diehl]

full

[dond]

I like it. That would be a fine addition to any collection imo.

[VtwinVince]

I don't like the style of the script, it looks forced and amateurish compared to genuine period engravings I have handled. Also, the fact that the unit is rare is suspicious.

[Flyingdutchman]

Gentlemen,

I do hate to disagree with the reasonable opinion of a fellow enthusiast, but here I would dare it.

The engraving we are looking at is in my opinion far from being amateurish. It was done imo from a skilled engraver by hand, just using his engraving-head (Stichel).

As a German I have to add that this engraving looks pretty close to what I have seen so many times on bowls, daggers, handguns, sport/hunting trophys from that period. More than this. There is simply no false cut or misproportion as far as I can see. This shows the hand of a skilled craftsman in my humble opinion. Of course, I can be wrong easily, we are just looking at pictures.

But one point causes me thinking. The term 'Feldwebel' usually should be written with a large 'F', even as an abbreviation. Noteworthy the engraver wrote it with a small 'f'. Gramatically this is incorrect in the German language. Maybe this is because he was a Vizefeldwebel or it was just done to fit better to this cross. A faker would have done it correctly imo.

This is where I have to agree with Vtwinvince totally. As soon as you are dealing with ultra rare and famous names and/or units, one should be very cautios. Such an ultra rare unit is suspicious, there is no doubt. So Vic should try hard to find out who the former owner was. We are dealing just with a limited amount of soldiers, especially nco's. So it should be possible, and maybe necessary to track this person down.

There is no know-it-all intention in my post, just another thought, which I hope is ok.

Best;

Flyingdutchman

Edited September 7, 2010 by Flyingdutchman

[Vic Diehl]

First bit of information coming in from the Panzer Museum in Munster. These are the commanders of the ABT. 1. No help with this cross, but perhaps helpful to some of you with another project.

Sehr geehrter Herr Diehl,

bei dem Abzeichen handelt es sich um das Eiserne Kreuz erster Klasse, das für besondere Tapferkeit

verliehen wurde. Die Gravur erfolgte nachträglich, denn das EK I mit einer Gravur zu versehen war

war nicht üblich. Ich selbst habe dieses noch nie gesehen. Somit hat meiner Meinung nach die verleihende Einheit dieses in eigener Regie veranlasst, um den Soldaten besonders zu Ehren.

Leider besitzen wir in unseren Unterlagen nur die Aufteilung der A7V und deren Kommandanten der StPzKrW Abt 1

im April 1918

Sturmpanzer-Kraftwagen-Abteilung 1

A7V Kommandanten

Isolde OLt Skopnik

Lotti Lt Vietze

Alter Fritz Lt Volckenheim

4 Lt Block

5 Lt Bartens / Hptm Greif (Abt Führer) dessen Zuordnung auf den

jeweiligen A7V nicht eindeutig ist.

Mehr konnte ich nicht herausbekommen.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Vic Diehl

[Eric Stahlhut]

i don't mean to be alarmist or anything, but another aspect of this cross needs to bear scrutiny. one needs to determine whether or not the tarnish is period or chemically induced.

p.s. the weird clean spots on the remaining tarnished areas could have come from a spray, or could have occurred when the cross was repaired. the spots could have been a result from the heating of the frame

Edited September 8, 2010 by Eric Stahlhut

[Vic Diehl]

Eric:

Your point is well understood. The photo on post # 19 and a couple before that were done on a flat scanner at 1200 DPI in an attempt to better show the engraving, I had to photoshop the color to get it back from the brightness of the scanner so the patina in those couple of pics has an unusual tint. If you look at the original early posts you can see the patina is consistant throughout and of the proper color. I have watched guns being aged with chemical patina, it is an interesting process indeed. Vic

I do hope if you are at the MAX show you will stop by Johnson Reference Books and Militaria and check out this cross.

Edited September 8, 2010 by Vic Diehl