Persia - Order of the Lion and the Sun

[Dr Ali Kolahdooz]

11 hours ago, JapanX said:

Ali, is it possible for you to read this inscription? 

It's not the name of the maker.It's date 1339 not sure Hijri or Shamsi.Most likely the name of the owner of the Medal.Gholam Reza Khan

[Dr Ali Kolahdooz]

 

Photograph of Doctor Inspector Lucien Marie Victor GEORGES. (1866 - 1924). He was appointed Inspector Doctor in 1919. He directed the Health Service of the 20th Army Corps. He is wearing the photograph of the 1915 model outfit with embroidered kepi. The kepi is made of acanthus leaves mixed with the epidermis snake, all embroidered on red velvet. The tunic has two silver stars at the bottom of the sleeves, as well as red velvet collar attributes representing the caduceus emblem of the Health Corps. Note the small buttons at the bottom of the sleeves to raise them during operations performed in military hospitals. The decorations present on the tunic are as follows: Officer of the Legion of Honor, War Cross 1914-1918, Colonial Medal, Commander of the Lion and the Sun of Persia

[JapanX]

11 hours ago, Dr Ali Kolahdooz said:

It's not the name of the maker.It's date 1339 not sure Hijri or Shamsi.Most likely the name of the owner of the Medal.Gholam Reza Khan

Many thanks Ali! 

For years I am trying to identify unknown persian maker of these lions. Still no luck.

[Dr Ali Kolahdooz]

As I said it's not the maker's name. it's just the name of an unknown person.Unfortunately it was and is very common for people to write their name on monuments, bank notes and important/popular places.

There are 100s of names on the Persepolis stones sadly  

[Dr Ali Kolahdooz]

found new Sun and Lion Medal maker: C.F Zimmermann.

Any more info on the maker?German maker 

[922F]

C. F. Zimmermann, Pforzheim was a very well known German manfacturer of awards.  Besides German honors, the company manufactured a very wide range of decorations from Bulgaria to Zanzibar in full size and miniature.   Jacob's Court Jewellers of the World provides more details. 

[Dr Ali Kolahdooz]

56 minutes ago, 922F said:

C. F. Zimmermann, Pforzheim was a very well known German manfacturer of awards.  Besides German honors, the company manufactured a very wide range of decorations from Bulgaria to Zanzibar in full size and miniature.   Jacob's Court Jewellers of the World provides more details. 

I don't have the book,If you do can you please share a photo of Zimmermann's bio please.

[Dr Ali Kolahdooz]

8 hours ago, Dr Ali Kolahdooz said:

found new Sun and Lion Medal maker: C.F Zimmermann.

Any more info on the maker?German maker 

I just don't understand why the owner of this medal insist this medal was made in Belgium by Zimmerman order!!!!

Any idea gentlemen?

 

[JapanX]

This is strange.

Even reverse clearly states that badge was made by C.F. Zimmermann from Pforzheim.

Do you have a better pictures of obverse and reverse (where suspension is fully visible)?

Any aditional marks (like Silber, 900, etc)?

[922F]

The Zimmermann center resembles Austrian examples.

Do not have access to Jacob's book now, perhaps someone else can supply information from it.  I remember Jacob reporting Zimmermann as being active from at least the 1930's, making German, Romanian and Bulgarian awards. Rick Research believed Zimmermann began much earlier maybe late 1880's-90's.  Rick's thought now makes more sense since this Sun & Lion dates before the 1930's! [Use of term Hofjuwelier another indicator]

The factory was destroyed during WW II--damaged items from that factory debris have been offered for sale for at least 5 years.  They include full size and miniature decorations from various German states', Czech, Zanzibar, Yugoslavia, Greece, and many other countries.  Zimmermann's held LDO and Lieferant number 20 [varient number L52] from 1941-45.

[Great Dane]

Jacob only mentions that Zimmermann made Romanian and Bulgarian orders since the 1930s. He doesn't really specify - depending on how you read it - when the company started.

[JapanX]

1 hour ago, 922F said:

The Zimmermann center resembles Austrian examples.

 

No, it doesn`t.

Nothing even remotely common. 

Rothe.

 

 

 

 

V. Mayer’s Söhne

Edited May 25, 2020 by JapanX

[Markus]

43 minutes ago, JapanX said:

No, it doesn`t.

Nothing even remotely common. 

Rothe.

 

 

 

 

V. Mayer’s Söhne

I agree with JapanX. This to me looks like a Persian made L&S. The painting and ray treatment as well as the metal work, look Persian. Sometimes I’ve seen Persian made L&S medals that have a European maker plate attached at a later date. 

[JapanX]

I`d say the closest (by iconography) will be Saniolmamalek, Tegran.

Another known variation from Saniolmamalek.

Edited May 25, 2020 by JapanX

[Dr Ali Kolahdooz]

I also compared and come to conclusion of saniolamamalek.

Could it be a forged Medal?Like a saniolmamalek made medal lately presented as zimmemran by adding his name?

the other only photo I can get

[JapanX]

 

2 hours ago, Dr Ali Kolahdooz said:

 Could it be a forged Medal?Like a saniolmamalek made medal lately presented as zimmemran by adding his name?

 

Zimmermann could use Saniolmamalek tablet as a model.

I`ve seen this type of lion in german medal bar once.

Well, let`s wait and see if I we can find another example of Zimmermann work. 

Then we can make much more reliable conclusion.

Best,

Nick

Edited May 26, 2020 by JapanX

[Dr Ali Kolahdooz]

Hi Guys, 

I found a photo of an Persian official who was commissioned to Tbilisi with an amazing L&S  medal we have never seen before.

I guess it was custom made by a Russian jeweler.

He wears a lot of medals with crown on them!!!! 

Mirza Reza Khan (1846-1939) was a Persian diplomat and first secretary at the consulate in Tiflis where he intervened as a mediator for the release of Turkish citizens. He was later appointed to the consulate in Russia where he attended the coronation of Tsar Alexander III, then ambassador to Saint Petersburg (1895), Persian delegate to the Hague Peace Conference in 1899, then appointed Minister Plenipotentiary in Constantinople where he remained for five years; later he moved to Monaco and was recalled to Persia in 1912-14 where he served as Minister of Justice and then of Education. He was friends with Pierre Loti and wrote various books, including Perles d'Orient (1904).

[oamotme]

Dr. Ali,

A great photograph. I can see Orders from Belgium, France, Monaco, Russia, Spain, Sweden, Turkey (Ottoman) as well as the Persian awards. I cannot identify the star at the bottom left and the partially obscured one on the bottom right or the two uppermost medals.

Owain

[Dr Ali Kolahdooz]

There are several photos of him on internet with some of the medals that he wears on the above photo as well as  L&S with crown!!! when he was in St Petersberg!!!

[oamotme]

Dr. Ali,

More great images - he also has awards from Ethiopia and Italy.

Owain

[Dr Ali Kolahdooz]

I am asking my GMIC friends who might be the maker of this  medal?

Does i'ts design look similar to any other medals? 

[GHB]

I have some basic questions on the Lion and Sun of Ghajar Dynasty that I cannot find answer to, even here.  (Perhaps I overlooked.)  the meaning of different color enamel.

1. I have head that red means a donation to the empire .  For Military perhaps the horses for a Calvary regiment.  For Civil funds for a civil project.  Comments ??  or corrections.

2. I have heard white enamel (extremely rare) if for a religious leader, as an Imam or such.  Any ideas?

3.  Re Black I have heard noting but have seen such badges. Are they merely very dark green or red or does someone here have an opinion?  

 

Help!  GHB

[NovelAmphibian]

Hello Gentlemen

We've recently come by this medal. I've scrolled through the 44 pages in this thread but haven't found one quite like it, with the rosette and the additional hanger piece. No marks on the reverse, sadly. Can anyone tell me anything about this one?

Cheers!

 

[g1usxs]

On 16/03/2023 at 23:49, NovelAmphibian said:

Hello Gentlemen

We've recently come by this medal. I've scrolled through the 44 pages in this thread but haven't found one quite like it, with the rosette and the additional hanger piece. No marks on the reverse, sadly. Can anyone tell me anything about this one?

Cheers!

 

It is  difficult to say but appears to be Persian manufactured. Need to see an image of the reverse to be certain. 

[NovelAmphibian]

On 23/03/2023 at 13:04, g1usxs said:

It is  difficult to say but appears to be Persian manufactured. Need to see an image of the reverse to be certain. 

 

Hi @g1usxs - thanks for getting back to me. Picture of the reverse as requested, but no maker's mark. I'd be grateful for any information you have.

Edited April 2, 2023 by NovelAmphibian
Spelling