Greek Victory Medals

[oliver860]

Hi! Photo medals!

[oliver860]

[oliver860]

Add. Diameter 36.8 mm, thickness 2.7 mm.

[sumserbrown]

Hello everybody,

comments (good or bad) welcome please on this one.

best wishes

Rob

[graham]

Definitely not an official medal and I do think it is an unofficial medal either. It is close to the unofficial type 2 in James Michels book but has a couple of clear differences.

[oliver860]

I see the differences in the figure of Hercules!

And the difference in the color of the medal suspension!

[sumserbrown]

Sure agreed, it is close but not quite the unofficial type 2 , but does anybody know what it actually is?? A modern replacement / copy / fake? Anyone seen one before?

[RobW]

Hello Rob,

Your item is an unofficial type 2 (Laslo classification). Of interest is the main planchet appears to be of a different composition than that of the unique suspender. This is most noticeable in the reverse pictures. It also looks like someone has cleaned just the main planchet but not the suspender. Irrespective of that it is an unofficial type 2. They have been seen in a variety of different finishes and with planchet variations that are extremely minor so I wouldn't read into that too much.

 

Things to look at would be gently cleaning both the obverse of the suspender to remove the verdigris in between the roundels, as well as making some attempt to remove/reduce/clean the verdigris spot on the reverse.

 

As this type of unofficial medal has been attributed to French manufacture I would recommend that you replace the ribbon with some french produced silk ribbon as then it would be true to type.

 

A nice example in relatively good condition.

 

Regards from Australia,
Rob

[sumserbrown]

On 28/08/2021 at 09:35, RobW said:

Hello Rob,

Your item is an unofficial type 2 (Laslo classification). Of interest is the main planchet appears to be of a different composition than that of the unique suspender. This is most noticeable in the reverse pictures. It also looks like someone has cleaned just the main planchet but not the suspender. Irrespective of that it is an unofficial type 2. They have been seen in a variety of different finishes and with planchet variations that are extremely minor so I wouldn't read into that too much.

 

Things to look at would be gently cleaning both the obverse of the suspender to remove the verdigris in between the roundels, as well as making some attempt to remove/reduce/clean the verdigris spot on the reverse.

 

As this type of unofficial medal has been attributed to French manufacture I would recommend that you replace the ribbon with some french produced silk ribbon as then it would be true to type.

 

A nice example in relatively good condition.

 

Regards from Australia,
Rob

Many thanks Rob, much appreciated

[Maraiuta]

hello gentlemen, I am new to this group but I have been following you for some time.
I wanted your opinion on this Greek victory medal, not having specific books available.
I think the ribbon is not original. Thanks for your help.

 

greetings, Luigi

[graham]

Luigi, it has all the characteristics of an official medal. I think you are ok with this one. 

[Maraiuta]

 

Thanks for the reply Graham. And what do you think of the ribbon? It feels quite stiff to the touch for silk. In addition to appearing also with bright colors.

[graham]

Have you tried a UV test on it?

[Ura87]

21 hours ago, Maraiuta said:

 

Thanks for the reply Graham. And what do you think of the ribbon? It feels quite stiff to the touch for silk. In addition to appearing also with bright colors.

The ribbon is not original.

[Maraiuta]

13 hours ago, graham said:

Have you tried a UV test on it?

no, I'm not sure I have the right lamp.
But by feeling, since the ribbon seems "hard" and too new, I am more inclined to think that it is not original, rather than that it is.
I was wondering if "on sight" it was possible for you experts to determine if it is original or not.

 

since you tell me about uv lamp, what should i see if the ribbon is original? Do you have any examples in your possession that you can share?

 

greetings, Luigi

2 hours ago, Ura87 said:

The ribbon is not original.

Thanks Ura87.

[graham]

 

 

[Maraiuta]

21 hours ago, graham said:

Here I took a picture with a UV flashlight. What information can I get from this photo?

Greetings, Luigi

 

 

[Maraiuta]

okay, I will try to do some tests with ribbons that I already know are modern productions and I will compare them with doubtful cases.
Do you use protective glasses when using uv lights?

[oliver860]

Какой тест на ульрафиолет???? Только слепой не увидит современную ленту!

[dron]

Hello!
Gentlemen! Need help!
Could you please help confirming what type this medal is? Official, unofficial, copy? The cracks on the edge of the medal are confusing.

[RobW]

Hello Dron,

 

Nothing too unusual there. You have a nice official strike (Laslo classification).

 

The cracks in the die are not unusual either given the pressure the planchet is exposed to when the medal is struck.

 

The medal ribbon on your example is of italian production so to be more correct to type I would suggest you replace with some original french produced ribbon.

 

Regards,

Rob

[dron]

Thank you very much for your answer.  That dispelled my doubts.  Of course I'll change the tape. 

 

Best regards, Dron.

[RobW]

On 16/10/2024 at 21:39, Jean-Michel said:

Hello Rob,

 

I completely agree with your analysis, concerning the HUGUENIN model for many years I believed that it did not exist. To this day, I have only seen fakes.

 

In addition, the HUGUENIN house was bought and the new owner told me that he no longer had any archives. The same goes for the Greek diploma, it is also very hard to find, certainly the most difficult!

 

Kind regards,

 

Jean-Michel

 

Hello Jean-Michel,

 

Moving this reply here to keep it locked against the Greek vic topic.

 

I can positively confirm HUGUENIN examples do exist, and i have examples in my collection. Having said that; however, I no longer post any pictures of my collection here on GMIC.

 

I agree with your comments about the lack of archives from long-standing (very long-standing in the case of maison HUGUENIN) european manufacturers and it will probably only get worse as time marches on for what would be very old paper records.

 

In regards the Greek vic diploma. Yes; totally agree. They are extremely difficult to find.
 

Regards,

Rob

Regards,

Rob

Edited November 17 by RobW

[Jean-Michel]

Hello Rob,

 

You were right to move the discussion. Regarding the Huguenin model, I sincerely believe you, I will modify my article concerning this model. I easily understand the fact that you no longer publish photographs, we have already discussed it in private.

 

I take this opportunity to publish a model with a "BRONZE" marking on the reverse of the bail. This medal is an overmolding.

 

I acquired this medal at an auction. This medal comes from an old collection composed of several victory medals manufactured by "Delande".

 

You know as well as I do, that Delande was above all a collector before being a dealer. I recently had the opportunity to discuss with the person who bought his stock and I returned a very interesting document from this stock. Now, it is difficult to say if Delande for his own collection produced some overmolded models, but it would seem so. Similarly, there are sometimes differences between his drawings published in his main work and certain productions.

 

Kind regards,

 

Jean-Michel

Edited Thursday at 18:43 by Jean-Michel