EK 1914 Double stamped 800 EK1

[Chris Boonzaier]

Rich Gordon sent me a couple of pics of one of these for the book, now I have found a different one....

I have to dig it out Richards Photo, but I think there was a different number above the "800"

Does anyone know who made these?

[LeeJ]

I dont know who the maker is as this core will be found on several eks and Im not sure if any known makers used this hardwear. Are you writing the 1914 EK book Chris? Don said someone was writing a book and said photos were needed. Can I be of some assistance?

[Chris Boonzaier]

I dont know who the maker is as this core will be found on several eks and Im not sure if any known makers used this hardwear. Are you writing the 1914 EK book Chris? Don said someone was writing a book and said photos were needed. Can I be of some assistance?

Hi,

Great, we need all the help we can get. I will PM you.

Thanks

Chris

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

Does noone have any thoughts on these crosses?

Best

Chris

[Eric Stahlhut]

eight years later, i have a few observations

here are two further examples-- one has a 2 above the 800 while the other appears to have a faintly stamped 11; notice that all three crosses have the placement of the markings on the exact same spot of the cross arm, which indicates that the workshop that produced these was fairly meticulous in adhering to production standards and guidelines. if you look at all three crosses, you will notice minute differences which indicates assembly by different individuals. also the chops themselves are unique, which means that each employee probably had their own set of tools. my opinion is that these additional marking were identifiers for quality control or perhaps even a work measurement tool for production purposes. (fritz got employee of the week and took home a bonus because he met or exceeded the quota for the week, etc. etc.)

sorry in advance for the crappy cell pics, but i hope you get the idea

 

 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Eric Stahlhut
replaced poor image with slightly better poor image

[Chris Boonzaier]

I agree... they have a craftsman feel about them, not a factory feel.

[Glenn R]

I just managed to bag this one in my endless quest for engraved crosses. Haven't got it in the hand yet so these are the only pics I have. Appears to be the same maker I'd say?

Coming with the receipt and box from Spinks Auction House from 1981 where it fetched the princely sum of £41.

Having said that I started collecting EKs in the late 80's and could pick a belter up for that money.

I do love personalised gift crosses like this one. Unit and date marked crosses are obviously researchable and who doesn't love them but I do have a real soft spot for this type of engraving as to my mind it tells a different side of the war's story.

Glenn.

[ccj]

Nice EK and great photography 

[Eric Stahlhut]

awesome cross, please post detailed images once it's in your hands!

not sure if it is same maker, though. the crown on core does not appear to match, and the 800 mark on left cross arm is placed vertically instead of horizontally and does not have an additional proof mark.

that have been said, it would be super cool if it indeed turns out to be a third variant (or has features indicating a third employee putting the cross together)

i think these sentimental engravings from loved ones to the cross holder are just great--i have a CD-style cross with a similar such endearment engraved on it

 

[Glenn R]

Thanks ccj.

Yes clearly a few differences there. I'm intrigued to see if there's any markings on the pin when closed.

Not easy to see from the angle its at but the pin appears quite similar. I shall certainly post more images once it arrives Eric. Do you have any pics of your CD style?

 

Glenn

[Eric Stahlhut]

here you go, glenn--a link to an old post ?

 

[Glenn R]

That is a beauty. Seems I commented on it in 2008! My memory really doesn't stretch that far but my opinion hasn't changed. Thanks Eric. Glenn

 

 

 

 

[buellmeister]

What a splendid EKI!  

Regards, 

Joel 

[Glenn R]

Cheers Joel

[buellmeister]

Raising glass!

[Eric Stahlhut]

13 hours ago, Glenn R said:

" My memory really doesn't stretch that far but my opinion hasn't changed. Thanks Eric. Glenn"

 

 

I forgot about it too, until you posted your example. While it's always nice to obtain new, sought-after items, it can be equally nice to dig out items that have been salted away for years. sort of a rediscovery process---i'll have to find it so that i can reappreciate it

i really like the engraving style on your cross and am looking forward to checking it out, the pin looks promising

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Eric Stahlhut

[Alex K]

Hi all, I’ve been reading about double marked variants and have become slightly intrigued, so thought I would add my bit, I don’t know if it fits in but will ask.

 I’ve had this EK1 since the early 80’s, (April 1984 to be precise). It was back in the day when your dealer’s catalogue arrived in the post, and the contents for sale were written descriptions, (no images!) so it was pot luck. I still recall that this piece was described as “Officers Cross, very high quality, mint condition”, based on that I took the plunge and paid my 30 GBP.

 

Upon arrival I eagerly opened the package and out it came, in my opinion, description was spot on, attached

What surprised me apart from the quality, were the “re-inforcement bars” to which the hinge and clasp were attached and the double marking, cross and hinge were stamped 800 (Silver), Years later I posted it on several forums (including GMIC) and it was suggested that the re-inforcement was a repair, which seemed odd to me as I personally would say that the cross never saw a uniform and may never have been out of it’s case, so why repair an unused cross?

I started to search the net (as you do) and over the years found several other examples identical to mine, to my eyes, same frame, same core, same hardware, and same quality of manufacture, mine is amazing quality which the images don’t quite show, (Crosses were repaired this way) but if these are repairs then every repair is identical, and all on identical crosses, attached are two I retained the images, the “Dealer” one, the dealer also talked about the amazing quality

 

any comments welcome

 

regards Alex

[Eric Stahlhut]

yep, same core. the 'online source now unknown' cross is mine--from an old thread on this particular version--another unique feature of these reinforced crosses is the indentation or 'dimple' with centering mark in the middle of the back planchet. almost as if they realized they were out of a screwback component, such as lengths of threaded screwpost, so they whipped up this style as a sturdier than normal alternative. 

one of my first crosses! 

p.s. i still have some of those catalogues from the early 80s. not only were the descriptions rudimentary at best, it would take an eternity to complete the transaction. no internet in those days!! i'll post an image of exactly what alex is talking about regarding the written descriptions, i remember reading each vague description and trying to figure out which was the best one to send off for, lol

[Alex K]

Hi, mystery owner solved, I hope you don't mind me borrowing your image, I, like many others see an image and download unfortunately in those days sources were not normally recorded, after a while you forget, yes I noticed on your example the central disc shadow and thought the same as you, on my example and the unknown dealers example, the reverses have a mirror shiny finish, (if you can see thru the patina) I can only assume on those that the disc shadow was heavily buffed out before the hinge and clasp additions were attached, these themselves may have been actually pre-assembled components I'm begining to think, so not repairs in the literal sense. 

Yep, catalogues were really fun in those days ?

Regards alex

Edited December 3, 2020 by Alex K

[gregM]

I remember a few discussions about these reinforcing plates and always

with the same conclusions.  Some say repair, some say original.  I always believed

them to be repairs but through the years I've changed my mind on that. 

 

Like you guys, I have saved a few images of crosses (1100 so far) to make my own datebase

of known maker examples and of coarse, no regards to who's images they are so please don't

be alarmed if someday you come across a thread where I might reference one of your crosses.

[Chris Boonzaier]

15 hours ago, gregM said:

 please don't be alarmed if someday you come across a thread where I might reference one of your crosses.

S'long they are not my nude selfies I am cool with it...

I agree...there are cross repairs... but also makers who went for a cool look from the get-go...

Iron Cross 1st class were like man jewellery... If I had been a recipient I would had a drawer full of cool versions... and lets not forget... people collecting things was more comman back then then nowadays... So Leutnant G. may have had 4-5 nice pieces.... and the plate would have been a sexy selling point back then...

[Alex K]

21 hours ago, gregM said:

I remember a few discussions about these reinforcing plates and always

with the same conclusions.  Some say repair, some say original.  I always believed

them to be repairs but through the years I've changed my mind on that. 

 

Like you guys, I have saved a few images of crosses (1100 so far) to make my own datebase

of known maker examples and of coarse, no regards to who's images they are so please don't

be alarmed if someday you come across a thread where I might reference one of your crosses.

I have long argued with the assumption that these are repairs, true, like Chris has said, repairs were done like this, but from the examples I've shown, every "repair" is virtually identical, on identical pieces, my example is in mint condition, with case which I suspect it never left, why repair an unused medal?