Bulgaria FAKE BULGARIAN ORDERS ON THE MARKET

[ruiz]

Yes, very low quality,  it´s a frankenstein

[Igor Ostapenko]

14 hours ago, new world said:

Being sold as Bulgaria after WW2 Royal Order for Bravery Officer's Cross of 1st Grade, 4th IV Class. Regent Issue. 
This is a fake with some original parts. I had similar medal years ago and it did not look real at all - base is of very low quality. 

?????????? 

[Graf]

Yes Very questionable items

When I asked the sellers, based in Bulgaria, about the poor quality , their answer was that those Orders were produced in private workshops after the WW2  and the quality control was not as good as the one made earlier

 

I did not accept that and i did not buy any of those. although the variant with the screw back was tempting

There were also  3rd Class 1 Grade for sale as well The same quality  I will look in my file whether i saved some pictures

 

Regards

[new world]

2 hours ago, Graf said:

... those Orders were produced in private workshops after the WW2  and the quality control was not as good as the one made earlier...

 

I don't believe in this argument. Couple samples I saw had screw nut stamped by Miloshev. If you compare what his workshop made during the same period you will see that these low quality medals were not made by him.

[ruiz]

I think like boyh.... The best example occurs with the Pilot, Infantry or wounded badge of the post-monarchical period. Many sellers tell you that the badge was tampered with by the soldier.

[Graf]

19 hours ago, new world said:

 

I don't believe in this argument. Couple samples I saw had screw nut stamped by Miloshev. If you compare what his workshop made during the same period you will see that these low quality medals were not made by him.

I agree, That is why i did not buy those questionable..also this period is of least interest to me.

[new world]

Frankenmonster from my post from 1 week ago was sold for $98

Edited February 13, 2023 by new world

[Graf]

28 minutes ago, new world said:

Frankenmonster from my post from 1 week ago was sold for $98

The buyer did not suspect any wrongdoing

[Graf]

It looks like Bogdan did not sell some of the questionable item on his last Auction he relisted them again

It is close Auction. You can not see the other bids ??!! He made very high estimates of the items Well above the market prices

[new world]

1 hour ago, Graf said:

It looks like Bogdan did not sell some of the questionable item on his last Auction he relisted them again

It is close Auction. You can not see the other bids ??!! He made very high estimates of the items Well above the market prices

Some of the items he's been selling for years and they are still unsold with such low starting prices. Which makes me think he's not running honest auctions, if he were they would have been long gone...

[Graf]

18 hours ago, new world said:

Some of the items he's been selling for years and they are still unsold with such low starting prices. Which makes me think he's not running honest auctions, if he were they would have been long gone...

I agree. i also doubt that some of the items are available. he is using them to look that the Auctions are exclusive.

Also ,the starting price does not mean anything if those Auctions are not open

[new world]

On 06/06/2019 at 08:13, Graf said:

Hi Here is a picture of Lot 53 and the result of this Auction to support the Great Dane information

One of the seller, who is selling the Catalog I listed above, was very kind to send me them

If this Set is not in this Cataalog The seller stated it does not feature on the back cover of the catalog, then ith might be on the back cover of a book/catalog written by Graf Clenau about Orders from Europe, which was published in 1978/1979- -picture provided

Hi Ilieff, do you have any access to the King Simeon Office. They might have information what was ordered Set or a cross. The might have the answer of this question

I still support the 922F statement " Gustav Tammann had a 1940's C & M small collar with a much later thin arm badge that he said was Cejalvo work.  He  had a new star with that collar, most likely a 1960's Rothe.

 I suspect that some of the Cejalvo Crosses were married to late Rothe Stars like in this picture The cross on the right is typical Cejalvo with the SS Brothers not painted directly to the center

 

 

 

This strange version of the star appeared for sale again a known Romanian/Swiss seller. 

 

[Graf]

I wonder whether was sold ..or it will be featured again in the next sale. I suspect that some of the items are not available at all and are used to attract bidders  for the available items There is no more transparency in many of the now days Actions/Sales, because most of them are online  I suspect the buyers are bidding against set price by the sellers not against the other bidders  and if not reached the item is not sold

[steveBobby]

This is a 3rd and I class bravery order I saw on a shopping website in Bulgarian recently. In terms of build quality, I don't think this is the original product. What is your opinion? 

[Graf]

Yes, it look very dodgy

Compare the quality and also the pin on the back is another give away

[Graf]

[Graf]

Fake 1st Class of the Order for Bravery on eBay.de

Although  i have to admit it is good copy it has many features that can trick only new collector

- The  additional ring is missing

The Central medallion has too many dots

The lion is very bad quality to be first Class The swords were wit wrong handles

The back cap is wrong

The pin  although look good, is not a correct

 The Cross looks too shiny and new i suspect the enamel is new soft one i do not think that the seller will test it if asked to do so.

The Seller claims  that the Order is Original gilded silver I doubt

 

It is scary that the fakers can produce such good copy

The seller also sells few other fakes including well known  PLM  supposedly  made by Wagner  Has the marks however it is not near the quality of the Original -still attracted many bidders

Here is a well known original 1st Class

[Graf]

100% sure the enamel is a soft modern one like the one on the picture ( listed on page two on this forum "upgraded' Original Commander of the Order of St Alexander)

I sent an email to the seller See what he will answer I asked hm to do the needle tests on the enamel

The seller responded to my mail He did not check the enamel Insist that the Cross is Original

I cannot argue with him Buyer be Aware Rule apply

Here is a close shot of the central medallion

 

You can see the dull look of it The old glass enamel has very good transparency and dept

 

[Igor Ostapenko]

8 hours ago, Graf said:

Fake 1st Class of the Order for Bravery on eBay.de

Although  i have to admit it is good copy it has many features that can trick only new collector

- The  additional ring is missing

The Central medallion has too many dots

The lion is very bad quality to be first Class The swords were wit wrong handles

The back cap is wrong

The pin  although look good, is not a correct

 The Cross looks too shiny and new i suspect the enamel is new soft one i do not think that the seller will test it if asked to do so.

The Seller claims  that the Order is Original gilded silver I doubt

 

It is scary that the fakers can produce such good copy

The seller also sells few other fakes including well known  PLM  supposedly  made by Wagner  Has the marks however it is not near the quality of the Original -still attracted many bidders

Here is a well known original 1st Class

this cross not better 😃 

OR THIS from HH

I have this corpus of WALDECK order . 
If you have hands and instruments, you can make bulgarian order for bravery 

[Graf]

Hi Igor Thank you for posting all those picture

 

I followed the recent HH Auction. I was very sad that they put on sale few questionable orders. especially some Sets of the Order for Bravery -combination of good and bad items, couple of Questionable 1st Class Stars combined with Original Crosses to make a Set  Some sellers will close their eyes to do a sell

 

It looks like there is a new wave of Bulgarian copies

21 minutes ago, Igor Ostapenko said:

this cross not better 😃 

OR THIS from HH

I have this corpus of WALDECK order . 
If you have hands and instruments, you can make bulgarian order for bravery 

 

[Graf]

Compare the enamel this one is Original

and this is the fake

 

 

Interesting news from other Forum This seller is well know for selling fakes on eBay.de --using different accounts

[Bretzen]

Hi Igor,

But you should also write in your post, that at Hermann Historica in Munich this specimen was described as a copy and a collector's item!!

 

 

Regards Uwe

 

 

[Bretzen]

Hi Peter,

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Graf said:

Hi Igor Thank you for posting all those picture

 

I followed the recent HH Auction. I was very sad that they put on sale few questionable orders. especially some Sets of the Order for Bravery -combination of good and bad items, couple of Questionable 1st Class Stars combined with Original Crosses to make a Set  Some sellers will close their eyes to do a sell

 

 

Hi Peter,

excuse me, but that is a very general statement.
Can you please be more specific, for example with catalogue numbers from the auction?
This might help one or the other buyer (I also bought) to recognise a possible mistake.

 

Kind regards Uwe

 

[Graf]

4 hours ago, Bretzen said:

Hi Peter,

 

 

 

 

Hi Peter,

excuse me, but that is a very general statement.
Can you please be more specific, for example with catalogue numbers from the auction?
This might help one or the other buyer (I also bought) to recognise a possible mistake.

 

Kind regards Uwe

 

Hi Uwe,

 

Nice to hear from you.

I have to the catalogue 

Most of the items were very good and original, however few were , in my opinion questionable

Why is for sure that HH had two 1st Classes Set of the Order for Bravery

One with very nice original boxes was sold. The other one with damaged Cross was not sold ( I saw it in post Auction sale section)

While the Crosses were original both Sets 's stars were not.That is my humble opinion.

You have knowledge and perhaps saw the lots in person. You might have different opinion

The purpose of this forums, in my opinion, is to raise concern for questionable items and through arguments (friendly ones) to agree whether tie items are Original and  fakes/copies

All participants put something individual  in those arguments. Some of us are with more eager and temperament some are more patient That is the human nature

 

Kind regards and respect

 

Graf                                                                                                                                             

[Graf]

On 19/08/2023 at 15:49, Graf said:

100% sure the enamel is a soft modern one like the one on the picture ( listed on page two on this forum "upgraded' Original Commander of the Order of St Alexander)

I sent an email to the seller See what he will answer I asked hm to do the needle tests on the enamel

The seller responded to my mail He did not check the enamel Insist that the Cross is Original

I cannot argue with him Buyer be Aware Rule apply

Here is a close shot of the central medallion

 

You can see the dull look of it The old glass enamel has very good transparency and dept

 

The seller added additional pictures.

i am still not convinced that this is an original piece, although there is a bit of a bidding and he will get good price

Judge for yourselves