ruiz Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Yes, very low quality, it´s a frankenstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Ostapenko Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 14 hours ago, new world said: Being sold as Bulgaria after WW2 Royal Order for Bravery Officer's Cross of 1st Grade, 4th IV Class. Regent Issue. This is a fake with some original parts. I had similar medal years ago and it did not look real at all - base is of very low quality. ?????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted February 8, 2023 Author Share Posted February 8, 2023 Yes Very questionable items When I asked the sellers, based in Bulgaria, about the poor quality , their answer was that those Orders were produced in private workshops after the WW2 and the quality control was not as good as the one made earlier I did not accept that and i did not buy any of those. although the variant with the screw back was tempting There were also 3rd Class 1 Grade for sale as well The same quality I will look in my file whether i saved some pictures Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 2 hours ago, Graf said: ... those Orders were produced in private workshops after the WW2 and the quality control was not as good as the one made earlier... I don't believe in this argument. Couple samples I saw had screw nut stamped by Miloshev. If you compare what his workshop made during the same period you will see that these low quality medals were not made by him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruiz Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 I think like boyh.... The best example occurs with the Pilot, Infantry or wounded badge of the post-monarchical period. Many sellers tell you that the badge was tampered with by the soldier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 19 hours ago, new world said: I don't believe in this argument. Couple samples I saw had screw nut stamped by Miloshev. If you compare what his workshop made during the same period you will see that these low quality medals were not made by him. I agree, That is why i did not buy those questionable..also this period is of least interest to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) Frankenmonster from my post from 1 week ago was sold for $98 Edited February 13, 2023 by new world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 28 minutes ago, new world said: Frankenmonster from my post from 1 week ago was sold for $98 The buyer did not suspect any wrongdoing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted February 15, 2023 Author Share Posted February 15, 2023 It looks like Bogdan did not sell some of the questionable item on his last Auction he relisted them again It is close Auction. You can not see the other bids ??!! He made very high estimates of the items Well above the market prices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Graf said: It looks like Bogdan did not sell some of the questionable item on his last Auction he relisted them again It is close Auction. You can not see the other bids ??!! He made very high estimates of the items Well above the market prices Some of the items he's been selling for years and they are still unsold with such low starting prices. Which makes me think he's not running honest auctions, if he were they would have been long gone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted February 16, 2023 Author Share Posted February 16, 2023 18 hours ago, new world said: Some of the items he's been selling for years and they are still unsold with such low starting prices. Which makes me think he's not running honest auctions, if he were they would have been long gone... I agree. i also doubt that some of the items are available. he is using them to look that the Auctions are exclusive. Also ,the starting price does not mean anything if those Auctions are not open 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 On 06/06/2019 at 08:13, Graf said: Hi Here is a picture of Lot 53 and the result of this Auction to support the Great Dane information One of the seller, who is selling the Catalog I listed above, was very kind to send me them If this Set is not in this Cataalog The seller stated it does not feature on the back cover of the catalog, then ith might be on the back cover of a book/catalog written by Graf Clenau about Orders from Europe, which was published in 1978/1979- -picture provided Hi Ilieff, do you have any access to the King Simeon Office. They might have information what was ordered Set or a cross. The might have the answer of this question I still support the 922F statement " Gustav Tammann had a 1940's C & M small collar with a much later thin arm badge that he said was Cejalvo work. He had a new star with that collar, most likely a 1960's Rothe. I suspect that some of the Cejalvo Crosses were married to late Rothe Stars like in this picture The cross on the right is typical Cejalvo with the SS Brothers not painted directly to the center This strange version of the star appeared for sale again a known Romanian/Swiss seller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted March 9, 2023 Author Share Posted March 9, 2023 I wonder whether was sold ..or it will be featured again in the next sale. I suspect that some of the items are not available at all and are used to attract bidders for the available items There is no more transparency in many of the now days Actions/Sales, because most of them are online I suspect the buyers are bidding against set price by the sellers not against the other bidders and if not reached the item is not sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveBobby Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 This is a 3rd and I class bravery order I saw on a shopping website in Bulgarian recently. In terms of build quality, I don't think this is the original product. What is your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted June 22, 2023 Author Share Posted June 22, 2023 Yes, it look very dodgy Compare the quality and also the pin on the back is another give away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted June 30, 2023 Author Share Posted June 30, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted August 18, 2023 Author Share Posted August 18, 2023 Fake 1st Class of the Order for Bravery on eBay.de Although i have to admit it is good copy it has many features that can trick only new collector - The additional ring is missing The Central medallion has too many dots The lion is very bad quality to be first Class The swords were wit wrong handles The back cap is wrong The pin although look good, is not a correct The Cross looks too shiny and new i suspect the enamel is new soft one i do not think that the seller will test it if asked to do so. The Seller claims that the Order is Original gilded silver I doubt It is scary that the fakers can produce such good copy The seller also sells few other fakes including well known PLM supposedly made by Wagner Has the marks however it is not near the quality of the Original -still attracted many bidders Here is a well known original 1st Class 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted August 19, 2023 Author Share Posted August 19, 2023 100% sure the enamel is a soft modern one like the one on the picture ( listed on page two on this forum "upgraded' Original Commander of the Order of St Alexander) I sent an email to the seller See what he will answer I asked hm to do the needle tests on the enamel The seller responded to my mail He did not check the enamel Insist that the Cross is Original I cannot argue with him Buyer be Aware Rule apply Here is a close shot of the central medallion You can see the dull look of it The old glass enamel has very good transparency and dept 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Ostapenko Posted August 19, 2023 Share Posted August 19, 2023 8 hours ago, Graf said: Fake 1st Class of the Order for Bravery on eBay.de Although i have to admit it is good copy it has many features that can trick only new collector - The additional ring is missing The Central medallion has too many dots The lion is very bad quality to be first Class The swords were wit wrong handles The back cap is wrong The pin although look good, is not a correct The Cross looks too shiny and new i suspect the enamel is new soft one i do not think that the seller will test it if asked to do so. The Seller claims that the Order is Original gilded silver I doubt It is scary that the fakers can produce such good copy The seller also sells few other fakes including well known PLM supposedly made by Wagner Has the marks however it is not near the quality of the Original -still attracted many bidders Here is a well known original 1st Class this cross not better 😃 OR THIS from HH I have this corpus of WALDECK order . If you have hands and instruments, you can make bulgarian order for bravery 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted August 19, 2023 Author Share Posted August 19, 2023 Hi Igor Thank you for posting all those picture I followed the recent HH Auction. I was very sad that they put on sale few questionable orders. especially some Sets of the Order for Bravery -combination of good and bad items, couple of Questionable 1st Class Stars combined with Original Crosses to make a Set Some sellers will close their eyes to do a sell It looks like there is a new wave of Bulgarian copies 21 minutes ago, Igor Ostapenko said: this cross not better 😃 OR THIS from HH I have this corpus of WALDECK order . If you have hands and instruments, you can make bulgarian order for bravery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted August 19, 2023 Author Share Posted August 19, 2023 Compare the enamel this one is Original and this is the fake Interesting news from other Forum This seller is well know for selling fakes on eBay.de --using different accounts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bretzen Posted August 19, 2023 Share Posted August 19, 2023 Hi Igor, But you should also write in your post, that at Hermann Historica in Munich this specimen was described as a copy and a collector's item!! Regards Uwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bretzen Posted August 19, 2023 Share Posted August 19, 2023 Hi Peter, 11 hours ago, Graf said: Hi Igor Thank you for posting all those picture I followed the recent HH Auction. I was very sad that they put on sale few questionable orders. especially some Sets of the Order for Bravery -combination of good and bad items, couple of Questionable 1st Class Stars combined with Original Crosses to make a Set Some sellers will close their eyes to do a sell Hi Peter, excuse me, but that is a very general statement. Can you please be more specific, for example with catalogue numbers from the auction? This might help one or the other buyer (I also bought) to recognise a possible mistake. Kind regards Uwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted August 19, 2023 Author Share Posted August 19, 2023 4 hours ago, Bretzen said: Hi Peter, Hi Peter, excuse me, but that is a very general statement. Can you please be more specific, for example with catalogue numbers from the auction? This might help one or the other buyer (I also bought) to recognise a possible mistake. Kind regards Uwe Hi Uwe, Nice to hear from you. I have to the catalogue Most of the items were very good and original, however few were , in my opinion questionable Why is for sure that HH had two 1st Classes Set of the Order for Bravery One with very nice original boxes was sold. The other one with damaged Cross was not sold ( I saw it in post Auction sale section) While the Crosses were original both Sets 's stars were not.That is my humble opinion. You have knowledge and perhaps saw the lots in person. You might have different opinion The purpose of this forums, in my opinion, is to raise concern for questionable items and through arguments (friendly ones) to agree whether tie items are Original and fakes/copies All participants put something individual in those arguments. Some of us are with more eager and temperament some are more patient That is the human nature Kind regards and respect Graf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted August 22, 2023 Author Share Posted August 22, 2023 On 19/08/2023 at 15:49, Graf said: 100% sure the enamel is a soft modern one like the one on the picture ( listed on page two on this forum "upgraded' Original Commander of the Order of St Alexander) I sent an email to the seller See what he will answer I asked hm to do the needle tests on the enamel The seller responded to my mail He did not check the enamel Insist that the Cross is Original I cannot argue with him Buyer be Aware Rule apply Here is a close shot of the central medallion You can see the dull look of it The old glass enamel has very good transparency and dept The seller added additional pictures. i am still not convinced that this is an original piece, although there is a bit of a bidding and he will get good price Judge for yourselves 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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