Bremen Miniature chain

[Spasm]

Gents

Would these be a nice thing to own? As I've shown before I have no idea on the 'rightness' of these although I like them a lot and would be tempted to buy. Should I? It's the only pic I have. I didn't know which topic to choose either although I believe it's a Bremen Cross

[christerd]

Hi Spasm ,

Looks very nice , but what is the last medal ?

Christer

[Spasm]

The last on the right is an EK, the first one on the left I have no idea. Another reason for me asking, I've had my trousers pulled down too many times now.

[redeagleorder]

The last might be a freikorps award. Does anyone know of a connection between Bavaria and the Hanseatic cities? Groups with them, especially Hamburg, seem to crop up more often than their positions in Germany would suggest.

[Dave Danner]

There are any number of scenarios. One of the most common would be a native of Bremen who went to college in Bavaria, perhaps in Erlangen or Munich, and so he did his one-year volunteer service in a Bavarian regiment. He ends up with a Bavarian commission and gets the Bavarian order as a Bavarian Lt.d.R. and the Bremen cross as a native of the city-state.

Or he could simply be a native Bremener who lived and worked in Bavaria.

Or even a navy officer serving on the SMS Bayern or some other ship with a tradition connection to Bavaria.

Or a Prussian officer, native of Bremen, but who trained as a pilot through Bavarian Armee-Flugpark 6 and spent time in a Bavarian squadron.

I would say the lack of a Prinz-Regent Luitpold Medal on the ribbon of the Bavarian Army Jubilee Medal does mean that if he was a Bavarian officer, it was after 1911.

Regards,

Dave

[VtwinVince]

Nice Kette, I think the medal is from the Siedlungsverband Kurland, a scarce award.

[saschaw]

Definitely something nice to own! I guess it's not coming with any provenience which could solve our quiz?

The last one is the 1932 Bavarian jubilee medal for the 1st Chevauleger-Regiment (OEK #560)...

[paul wood]

Spaz,

What a lovely original miniature chain the regimental medal on the end just adds icing to the cake.

Paul

[Spasm]

So, all ok then. I'll see if I can get it.

[Spasm]

Tis mine, thanks gents

[spolei]

Definitely something nice to own! I guess it's not coming with any provenience which could solve our quiz?

The last one is the 1932 Bavarian jubilee medal for the 1st Chevauleger-Regiment (OEK #560)...

Hello Sascha,

I see the bavarian regimental medal too.

regards Andreas

[Spasm]

Now have it in hand - will do some better pictures tomorrow.

The little jubilee medal is quite detailed. It says around the edge of the horseman - 250 JAHR. JUBILEAUM 1 KGL. BAYR. 1. CHEVAULEGERS-RGTS. 1932 and on the other side MAX EMANUEL. KURFURST V. BAYERN. 29.VI.1682 around a coat of arms. Spot on Saschaw.

They are in a brown plastic opening case with a sort of flock lining (like that old 70s wallpaper in pubs - horrible) that seems to be made for the medals with what looks like 'Marchmain House' printed on the outside. No more details than that.

The lad who sold them to me said his Granddad had died and these were in a box in the loft with a few other bits that he's sold - a set of spoons and a silver vase (nothing militaria wise). He has no idea why his Grandad would have had them. He had already had them up for sale on ebay but they didn't get to the reserve price. So, no providence. They are what you see.

Thanks again Gents.

[Trooper_D]

Spasm

I think that the case will turn out to be a red herring; merely a convenient place to store them rather than having any original association with the miniature chain. That aside, I am waiting with baited breath to see detailed photos of this fascinating miniature chain, itself - I confess I have a weakness for them!

[Spasm]

Have taken some detailed pictures. Here's the box - horrible plastic thing

[Spasm]

Here's the chain.

The Jubilee Medal has been added later as it is not secured through the chain as so could not have been worn as it just slips along to the next medal, it also has a silver coloured link.

The Bavarian Order of Merit IV Class, I think, with silver flames seems to be hung the wrong way round, the chain twists if it is placed the correct way. The later pictures show what's wrong here.

[Spasm]

The Iron Cross - I'm assuming this is an EKII as it has a back face

[Spasm]

The Order of Merit. It looks like it's hanging the wrong way round, but it's the swords that have been mounted incorrectly. Would this have come apart and been stuck back together the wrong way?

[Spasm]

The Hanseatic Cross of Bremen

[Spasm]

The 1st Chevauleger Regiment 250 year Jubilee Medal of 1932

[spolei]

Hello Spasm,

a very fine miniature. The swords of the MVO look like the swords of Godet MVO's.

The mini of the 1th Chev. Reg. ist fantastic, thanks for showing.

regards Andreas

[Dave Danner]

Assuming the 1. Chevaulegers connection is correct, it looks like the likeliest candidate is:

Dr. jur. Karl Gluud, born 12.10.1883 in Bremen. After legal studies at Heidelberg, Munich and Jena, he received his Dr. jur. from the University of Jena on 25.11.1910. He was a Syndikus in the Handelskammer in Bremen when the war started.

While a student in Munich, he served as an Einj.-Frw. in the 1.ChevR from 1.10.06-30.9.07. On mobilization, he joined the regiment as an Offz.-Stellv. in the 1.Eskadron. He was promoted to Lt.d.L.-Kav. 1.Aufgebot on 27.11.14 and OLt.d.L.-Kav. on 15.3.18.

He received his EK2 on 13.8.15. No dates are given for his BMV4X and Bremen Hanseatenkreuz.

I saw two other officers in 1.ChevR with Bremen citizenship, but one also had the Prinz-Regent-Luitpold-Medaille and the other only had a Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with Crown and Swords, not the order. It is possible that this second officer, Lt.d.R. Andreas Helms, might have gotten a post-war Military Merit Order 4th Class (they were awarding them to 1920 at least) which is not in his Kriegsrangliste entry, and wore that in place of his earlier Military Merit Cross. So the chain might still be his, but he would have been entitled to wear both the cross and the order, so maybe not.

And there might be another Chevauleger with the Bremen Hanseatenkreuz whom I missed. But Dr. Gluud seems like a good possibility.

Regards,

Dave

[Spasm]

Dave

Wow, fantastic and thank you for the time taken to research this. It never ceases to amaze me how learned you guys are in here.

How great to be able to put a name to the miniatures. Thanks again

Spaz

[Spasm]

Think I've found him. No idea what it means though.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Spasm

[Dave Danner]

This is the standard form for a Kriegsrangliste/Kriegsstammrolle.

• Column 1 is the number for the Kriegsrangliste entry.

• Column 2 is his rank

• Column 3 is his name

• Column 4 is his religion

• Column 5 is date and place of birth

• Column 6 is his occupation and place of residence

• Column 7 is for marital status, here "L" for ledig, unmarried

• Column 8 is for his parents

• Column 9 is his parent unit

• The unnumbered section below these is for notes. Here one usually finds a list of wounds, hospital stays, periods of leave. Here there is a notation for a 3-week leave in December 1916 and a notation that he was released to the Ersatz-Eskadron of the regiment for release from active duty because the Handelskammer in Bremen requested his return.

• Column 10 has two sections. The top shows date of entry into the military, and the lower one shows date of rank

• Column 11 is for combat participation. Here, since he was with the same regiment for all his war service, they simply attached a copy of the regiment's combat participation, with a few notes

• Column 12 is for decorations

• Column 13 is a record of military service, before the war and after mobilization

Regards

[Spasm]

Dave, thanks again. A great help