webr55 Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 It's been almost ten years since I first posted this bar (on WAF). It remains the main unresolved mystery in my collection: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 EK 2 with Spange 1939, HHOX, Saxon AlbertX (1st or 2nd), Hamburg Hanseatic Cross, War Honor/Hindenburg Cross, 2 Long Service eagles, Sudeten Anschluss Medal, Austrian Military Merit Cross 3rd cl with war decoration. On the back, you see that the second eagle obviously has been replaced. It might not have been gold, but silver. In that case, not improbable, this officer would have had only 12-17 years of service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 I have been trying to track him down for many years, and was hoping the new version of the HHOX awards would shed new light on it. I do not have any good suspects for this bar, just some vague ones which cannot immediately be excluded. It must have been a Luftwaffe General or Oberst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I am fairly confident that was Luftwaffe Oberst (E) Henry (or "J.") SCHUMBURG-- Leutnant 18.05.08 Q in Hamburg Inf Rgt 76-- transferred as an instructor to the Hauptkadettenanstalt just before the war Oberleutnant 25,02.15 J91i Hauptmann 18.07.17 U and aD in that rank Luftwaffe Major (E) circa 1935 Lw Oberstleutnant (E) by the end of 1937 Lw Oberst (E) 01.01.41 #18 As an Inf Rgt 76 officer he would have received an HH. He received the SA3bX on 22.02.16 as KP Oberlt u Adj Stabsoffizier der Flieger Armee Abteilung.... (no letter listed). His HOH3X was gazetted 18.07.18 in the Staats-Anzeiger and 17.08.18 in the Militär-Wochenblatt. He is shown as a new member of the Bund der Asienkämpfer in their newsletter "Orient-Rundschau" of 7 January 1938 as Oberstlt J. Schumburg, Kommandant Hamburger Flughafen--and ex-member of palestine front Flieger Abteilung 303 and FA 300--in that order. Probably had a 30.10.18 TH--not sure that he was a FLYER rather than ground unit staff/adjutant. I will have to hunt through my terribly brittle bound volumes once it is cool enough to do so-- a fan ruffling those dry brown pages will undoubtedly tear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Forgot to mention: I am assuming that Schumburg was an (E) officer from his final rank--the only one I have. He is in the "A2" manuscript never published, which was what the army called (S) officers by then. If he was (E), he had a Luftwaffe 12 and 4 for 1908-20 and 1934-ish-on to 1939--jut missing an 18. But if he HAD served continuously (in Hamburg police or some such) then he could indeed have had 25 and 12--so I'd leave that as is. Maybe the guys over at "Over The Front" can provide more detail on his flying career. He seems to have gotten his HOH3X and SA3bX for staff rather than "ace" positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 Schumburg? That would be interesting! His story is quite fascinating, many details can be found on the net. Full name Jean Robert Henry Schumburg. He was Swedish, born 20.12.1886 in Stockholm. Died 15.3.1976 and is buried in Stockholm (http://hittagraven.stockholm.se/sv/Norra-Begravningsplatsen/2/21A/71/1/). Lots of info on a Swedish forum: http://forum.skalman.nu/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=29545 18.05. 1908 Leutnant (Seems he went back to Sweden during the wars.) 01.06. 1933 Major 15.06. 1934 Luftwaffe Ergänzungsoffizier 1934 Reichsschule für Luftaufsicht 1936 Reichsschule für Luftaufsicht 01.10. 1937 Oberstleutnant 1938 Kommando Fliegerhorstkommandatur Uetersen 15.03. 1939 Kommandant Fliegerhorstkommandatur Hamburg 15.05. 1939 „Fremdsprachenprüfung Schwedisch abgelegt“ (!!!!) Until 11.1939 Fliegerersatzbataillon 16 27.11. 1939 „Kommandant des Hauptquartiers des Oberbefehlshabers der Luftwaffe“ 08.06. until 30.06.1940 „Kommandant des Hauptquartiers des Oberbefehlshabers der Luftwaffe in Belgien“ 01.01.1941 Oberst From 27.11.1939 to 31.10.1944 „Kommandant des Hauptquartiers des Oberbefehlshabers der Luftwaffe/Oberkommando der Luftwaffe“ They even have his military file from the Archive in Freiburg, not sure if I should post it here. It can be found via the link above. Yes, he was (E), his service time would fit, BUT... the file lists his WW2 awards (only those, no WW1 awards shown): KVK2 w/sw. 1.8.41 KVK1 w/sw 30.1.43 no EK Spange... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christerd Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Wow , that was a find He is one of the few Swedish born Luftwaffe Officers that I know of , and one of the notes in his military file in Freiburg made me feel quite uneasy. He was marked as a convinced Nazi in November 1944 ..... " Ueberzeugter Nationalsozialist " hmm I wonder what happend to him after the war ? I says on the Swedish forum that he returned to Sweden in 1946... Fantastic Ribbon bar !! Christer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Webr55 you say: They even have his military file from the Archive in Freiburg, not sure if I should post it here. It can be found via the link above. How do you know they have it? Were you able to access it? Do you know if they have the service files of the Kriegsmarine officers? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 No EK Spange..... arrrgh. The thing that has been driving me crazy is that I can visualize having seen Third Reich award documents to him SOMEWHERE--for sale, or even as book illustrations. But where or when, can't remember. Still, if no EK Spange..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 It sucks that someone would have added the 39 clasp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 No, it looks like the actual wearer is still unknown Suspect Two. We don't have the Hamburg Rolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 Paul: sorry my wording was unclear. I don't have his file, but that guy on the Swedish forum has it. If you follow the link above, you see it. However, I also have my experiences with the Militärarchiv Freiburg. I can say that they have been very friendly - and they seem to have LOTS of information (personal files etc.) that is not yet "out in the open". Kriegsmarine however I don't know, I doubt they cover navy as well. Christer: it seems nothing spectacular happened, he returned home probably after a short time as POW. Rick: this doesn't help, but I have a picture of very similar, but not identical bar, auctioned sometime (haven't researched it however): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I kinow that group well. It appeared on p.93 ofD. G. Neville's 1974 "Medal Ribbons & Orders of Imperial Germany & Austria," Balfour Pubnlications, St. Ives (England). It was--in 1974--the first and only color reference available for Imperial German ribbons. Mr. Neville kindly sent me a piece of St. Tamara ribbon (which had been mis-identified) in 1977. Hope he is still out there and doing well! Pretty sure whose that was, now--but not WHERE it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted August 29, 2013 Author Share Posted August 29, 2013 No EK Spange..... arrrgh. The thing that has been driving me crazy is that I can visualize having seen Third Reich award documents to him SOMEWHERE--for sale, or even as book illustrations. But where or when, can't remember. Still, if no EK Spange..... Do you remember what kind of TR documents? EK or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 I'd say LW long service or maybe the Sudeten. Too many things in brain.... used to be able to remember WHERE I saw something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted August 29, 2013 Author Share Posted August 29, 2013 Ok, bad question: You don't remember by any chance the type of LW long service...? I mean, maybe the second eagle WAS gold originally and he HAD 25+ years... What we know is he had either 12-17 OR 25+ years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 Just found the old thread from 2007: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/24258-this-bar-has-been-driving-me-crazy-for-years/ One suspect we still have was GM Erich von Falkenhayn (1881-1950). Had the HHOX and SA3aX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Ah, early pioneer days--before we had so much Research Gnome work computerized. Not a general. The second "mosquito" could be a correct gold--if he was 1920s SchuPo (and that's why we can't find him)... or silver 4. Until we find out, just put this back in your 3 AM box. The Hamburg Hanseatic Cross roll DOES exist, it just has never been done. For some reason the prosspect of typing out 50,000 names doesn't appeal to any victi er volunteers. Our last RG to try paid $300 for it on a computer disk from the city and the format was unreadable by any civilian computer. They must have still been using punch cards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Hrumph! Stupid Asci. Fantastic bar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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