For Research Oak leaf for Iron Cross 2nd Class 1870

[Komtur]

Variant 12

once found on order bar

This version is shown once in the basic publication of Wernitz.

[Komtur]

Variant 13

5 examples could be found on order bars

This version is shown in the basic publications of Wernitz (twice) and Heyde (3 examples).

[Komtur]

Variant 14

once found on order bars

[Komtur]

Variant 15

twice found on order bars

[Komtur]

Variant 16

twice found on order bars

It is shown twice in the basic publication of Previtera.

[Komtur]

Variant 17

once found on order bar

[Komtur]

Variant 18

once found on order bar

[Komtur]

Variant 19

once found on order bar

[Komtur]

Variant 20

once found on order bar

[Komtur]

current summary

There seems to be a lot of different versions/makers (20 and more) of the Oak Leaf for the Iron Cross 2nd class 1870. Some of them can be detected presumably as original made for the awarded person, because we found these versions three and more times on apparently old order bars (Variant 1, 2, 3, 6, 10, 13). One version (Variant 5) seems to be a modern copy. Interestingly none of these versions is exactly like the example officially made and stored from the Prussian General Ordens Kommission. The reason for this circumstance seems to be the fact, that the Oak Leaves had to be purchased privately and were not displayed by the General Ordens Kommission.

So far until now. Please support this research by pictures of Oak Leaves from order bars!

Thanks and Regards, Komtur.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Komtur

[Chris Boonzaier]

Sorry, I dont have better quality pics, I dont know if they are usable...

[Komtur]

Sorry, I dont have better quality pics, I dont know if they are usable...

The left one is not definitely to assign to one variant because of the poor details. The right Oak Leaf is very likely variant 3. But ist seems, it is on a single ribbon/cross and not on an order bar. Therefore I can´t count it for the statistics above.

But thanks anyway

[dond]

This one is mounted on a Jubilee period bar.

[Komtur]

This one is mounted on a Jubilee period bar.

... and belongs to the variant 2. Now we found 10 examples of this version on order bars

Thanks !

Regards, Komtur.

[gregM]

Very nicely done research.

I was surprised to see so many variations. Like Trevor, I am curious about the oaks

with acorns but I understand your not including them if none were found on bars.

[Komtur]

... Like Trevor, I am curious about the oaks with acorns but I understand your not including them if none were found on bars.

That is right. For this kind of view, I only "count" items on order bars. For a later intended publication I will include these other versions too.

Regards, Komtur.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Here is a question... when it come to 1870 bars, I had more without oakleaves than with them.... is it safe to make this calculation based on just mounted oakleaves? What if some crazy guy have made 200 sets of oakleaves and went crazy mounting them on bars.... it would badly sway this in the wrong direction....

[Komtur]

Here is a question... when it come to 1870 bars, I had more without oakleaves than with them.... is it safe to make this calculation based on just mounted oakleaves? What if some crazy guy have made 200 sets of oakleaves and went crazy mounting them on bars.... it would badly sway this in the wrong direction....

This is a question of statistics and likelyhood. There is indeed a danger to be killed by a down falling roof tile, if you leave your house. But we all feel quite safe, leaving our houses .

If I found the same version of an Oak leaf on ten different order bars from ten different places/collections, some of them coming directly from the family of the awarded person, there is a very small chance, that some crazy guy had all these bars in his dirty hands.

And why should someone do that? There is not such a big difference in the value of a bar with or without Oak Leaf. If I decide, that a combination of awards on a 1870ies bar is interesting for me, the price I am willing to pay, depends not on this question.

If we consider, that besides all this, the feared setting happend, shouldn´t we find not so obvious differences in preservation?

In the end: variant 5 is very likely a fake - I found this version only on ONE bar. Variant 10 is to be found in a AWS-catalogue of 1908 - I compiled until now EIGHT examples of this version on different order bars

Best regards, Komtur.

[Chris Boonzaier]

. But we all feel quite safe, leaving our houses .

Maybe YOU do... I always wear a helmet!! :-)

[Komtur]

Maybe YOU do... I always wear a helmet!! :-)

I would like to do so too! But it is currently not so in vogue, as it was before in my little hometown

[dedehansen]

Hello Komtur,

my contribution.

Old style ribbon bar from Carl Blumenthal.

Regards

Andreas

[Komtur]

Variant 3

8 examples of this version could be found on order bars.

It is shown additionaly in each case once in the basic publications of Heyde and Wernitz.

Hm, unfortunately the edition of older parts of this thread is impossible . So I have to change it in that way ...

dedehansen. Yours was variant 3 Nr. 8.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

This is a single mounted cross in the WW1 style, I think it had a Godet button on the back

[Claudio]

I forgot one to show… ;-)

[piekenier]

My oakleaves not sure which variant