bryansk1959 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hi.Friends, I would like everyone's help on the medal bar I have to get.Ask for help in identifying the missing award.Maybe it Saxon -Altenburg bravery medal or am I wrong?Waiting for your opinions.Thank you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryansk1959 Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 maybe this cross? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 The ribbon is for a Saxon long service award. Given the lack of other Saxon awards, it was probably a Landwehr-Dienstauszeichnung 1.Klasse or 2.Klasse. Possibly, he was a student at the University of Leipzig when he did his one-year volunteer year, and therefore was in the reserve/Landwehr of the Royal Saxon Army. But he was not a Saxon citizen and ended up in the Prussian civil service, earning the Red Eagle Order. During World War I, he was perhaps serving in or with the Prussian Army somewhere in the X.Armeekorps area, which included both Oldenburg and Braunschweig, getting their war awards. There is also a chance that the ribbon was for an officer's 25-year Dienstauszeichnungskreuz and he was an Oberstleutnant or higher. In that case, his Saxon orders might have been bumped up to pinback or neck badges, and thus not on the medal bar. But most of these guys would have had other awards, such as peacetime orders from other German states. Regards, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryansk1959 Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Thank you Dave.I think you're right.Simply ribbons at Saxon -Altenburg bravery medal and Landwehr-Dienstauszeichnung are very similar.There is more: if the person was awarded the Red Eagle Order it means the officer?Regards.Alexander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 If he was awarded the Red Eagle Order for service as an officer, then yes. If he was awarded the Red Eagle Order as a civil servant, then likely yes, but possibly not. Example 1: College student in Leipzig, One-year volunteer in a Saxon regiment, enters Prussian civil service, remains in the Saxon reserve/Landwehr but never seeks a commission. Gets his Red Eagle Order as a civil servant. When World War I starts, he is a Vizefeldwebel der lLandwehr or Vizefeldwebel d.L.a.D., and perhaps because of his age gets a commission as a Lt.d.L. Example 2: College student in Leipzig, One-year volunteer in a Saxon regiment, enters Prussian civil service, remains in the Saxon reserve/Landwehr and is commissioned a Lt.d.R. Stays in Saxon service long enough to get an LD2 or LD1, but no other Saxon decorations. When the war starts, he is a Saxon OLt.d.R.a.D. or Lt.d.R.a.D., working for the government in Hannover. He volunteers or is called up in Prussian service and never is put in for a Saxon award. Example 3: Same as above, except he is still in Saxon service. Landwehrbezirk Leipzig I and II were the Kontrollbezirke for Saxon officers living in Prussia. In the 1914 Saxon rank list, there are several officers there, Hauptleute der Landwehr and Oberleutnants der Landwehr, who have the Red Eagle Order 4th Class and the Saxon LD1. Several of these do not show up in the published Saxon award rolls. That may be because they were too old or in vital civilian jobs and so never went to the front, or did go to the front but were killed in 1914, but it's also possible one of them could be your guy. Unfortunately, there are also no rolls for the Oldenburg and Braunschweig awards, so there is no way to confirm or deny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryansk1959 Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Dear Dave, thank you so much for the great explanation.Alexander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 My first guess would have been there's an Italian Messina earth quake medal missing... http://woeschler-orden.de/italien-erinnerungsmedaille-das-erdbeben-1908-kalabrien-und-sizilien As we know, they usually used different (e. g. Saxon) green and white ribbons, as German tailors hardly had the proper one in stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 If I remember correctly from discussions with Rick the Italian Messina earth quake medal was given to men aboard ships of the German navy that assisted the Italian. Does anyone know which ships were involved? It may be possible to ID the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Hi Paul, the two German Navy ships were SMS Hertha and SMS Victoria Louise as well as from the German merchant marine with NDL - Dampfer Bremen,Therapia and also the Hamburger Bergungsdampfer Salvator. But I think that it is the ribbon from the saxonian Dienstauszeichnung or Landwehrdienstauszeichung. Regards Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) Please show the back of the bar... if it's covered with dark blue or black textile piece, then it could be very well Kriegsmarine... ;-) Edited August 13, 2014 by Claudio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryansk1959 Posted August 17, 2014 Author Share Posted August 17, 2014 Gentlemen, thank you for your interest.Unfortunately until Wednesday, I can not take a photo of the reverse.Back of the bar covered with dark blue textile piece.I apologize for the late reply.Best regards.Alexander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryansk1959 Posted August 20, 2014 Author Share Posted August 20, 2014 Back of the bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul C Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 It is a dark blue or black which could be Navy. It would take a great deal of work but an attribution for the bar is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IR 134 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Landwehrbezirk Leipzig I and II were the Kontrollbezirke for Saxon officers living in Prussia. Hi Dave. The responsibility of the Landwehrbezirke (the saxon ones especially) is an interesting topic for me. Can you mention me some reference works? Gruß Stefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I don't have a reference. I just tracked the Saxon reserve or Landwehr officers whose civilian jobs I knew, and with few exceptions, the ones living and working in Prussia were controlled out of Leipzig. On the other side, Prussian reserve and Landwehr officers living in Saxony appear most often under Landwehrbezirk Halle a/S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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