Bilco Posted September 12, 2015 Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) This item on the BBC News web site this morning - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34229633 Bill Edited September 12, 2015 by Bilco Spelling mistake
Chris Boonzaier Posted September 12, 2015 Posted September 12, 2015 What kind of serious British Auction house would split a group like this??
Great Dane Posted September 12, 2015 Posted September 12, 2015 I agree. Those lots without name (i.e. the orders from Norway, Denmark, Chile etc.) will totally lose their provenance when sold individually.Here is a link to the auction description:Christie's/Michael
Chris Boonzaier Posted September 12, 2015 Posted September 12, 2015 I think Christies should be above something like this.
dedehansen Posted September 12, 2015 Posted September 12, 2015 A real shame, are they beginning to split up groups in Great Britain too?I thougt that this only a bad habit from some german dealers and collectors.Kind regardsAndreas
Paul R Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 I saw this on FB. What a huge mistake. :-(
paul wood Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 In their defence (although I most definitely agree they should be kept together) it seems the group is already split as there is no mention of his 3 clasp polar medal and many of the multitude of world Geographical society awards he received from 1901-1910. Also the Geographical medal was awarded in 1904 for the 1902-04 expedition for which he was Third Officer aboard the Discovery. there was no 1901 expedition, only the 1898-1900 "Southern Cross" expedition in which he did not participate..More comments when the catalogue is on line.Paul
peter monahan Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 Presumably then the rationale is that this is not a group but a collection and by selling them separately Chrisitie's will not only give more people a chance to 'own a piece of history' but also maiximize the collective price of all the medals.Sadly, but realisitcally, Chrisite's and other auction houses are not in fact in the hsitory business but in sales and their first obligation is arguably to their share holders. Hence, whatever maximizes profits is the best course of action for a business operating in a capitalist system. At least in the short term.
Chris Boonzaier Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 HiI have always had the feeling the British dealers take the high road, or at least look down their noses at german or European collecting fields where it is comman that groups are split as they are not named anyway...But to split a REAL group, even if not complete..... its simply not cricket!
paul wood Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 Have just seen the catalogue at a dealer friend of mine. It is shambolic, none of the non-British awards have warrants of appointments so one split from the group they are anonymous (and not worth anything like the figures they are quoted). The Group CVO, MBE and Great War Pair is nice, what is not mentioned (and which is a very collectable thing in its own right) is that the full ribbon bar, with the polar medals is included with the lot. There are two other named awards (apart from the Royal Geographic Medal) one a Dutch medal for the 1907-09 expedition when he reached the furthest south ever and a named American piece. Interestingly they come from a member of the family, the Polar medal is with another member and will never come up for sale and the majority of the prize medals are also with a further member of the family.Paul
Great Dane Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 Exactly. At least the Chilean order has a 'wear pattern' that will make it somewhat recognizable from the auction photos and thus leave a fragile photo/paper provenance trail. Why would anyone pay a premium for the other un-named (generic) lots...?Hopefully one of the other family members will step up and buy the lot to complete what they already own./Michael
Paul C Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 The seller may have instructed the auction house to split the group to make it easier to sell.
Great Dane Posted October 28, 2015 Posted October 28, 2015 Just noticed the auction result (scroll down to 'past lots)Most of those unnamed orders sold for 5-10 times the already inflated estimate.Unbelievable... /Mike
paul wood Posted October 29, 2015 Posted October 29, 2015 One can only hope that they were all bought by the same buyer and therefore kept together.Paul
Mike McLellan Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) Coincidently, on ebay recently, a seller offered what he assumed was a truncheon or sporting implement. In fact, it was a seaman's fid, a rope splicing tool. It bore a brass plate that said "Nimrod Boston 1881". Nimrod was one of the ships that Shackleton took on his trek south in 1892, I believe. I bid on it, hoping that nobody else would discover its true function and identity, but alas, several others did their homework, and, much to the seller's surprise, this small artifact brought in a handsome price. I don't recall what the hammer price was, but it was beyond my means at the time. Just does to show; keep your eyes open! Mike. Edited November 1, 2015 by Mike McLellan
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