Jump to content
Locktsar

St Georges Cross x4 and what else

Recommended Posts

New to this forum but in desperate need to get some help in trying to establish some family history.

This is a photo of a relative. The "family legend" tells that he served in the personal guard for the tsar family - and yes I know this can be a very wide description. There are lot's of different parts that are referred to as to tsar Nikolaj II personal guard. Nevertheless this is part of what I am trying to establish. The photo is from 1915 and he is 25 years old. It has always been said that he was highly (?) decorated and there was reference that he had been awarded the St Georges Cross in all 4 classes. Now from what I can make out from this photo - the 4 medals to the left do seem to be St Georges Cross - they are all identical from what I can see.

Anyone who can support that by looking at the photo?

Secondly - anyone have a guess on what the other medals might be? I make it to be 5 more medals - not sure if the last item is a medal or a symbol for the regiment?

Thirdly - anyone talented in identifying imperial Russian uniforms and could tell/guess what regiment he belonged to?

img-203161755-0001.pdf

Edited by TacHel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Locktsar,

I think the 4 medals from left are St Georges Crosses.

For comparison, the front and back of a St Georges Cross 4th class awarded to a German Feldwebel

56b3c257228e7_HellwichSergFwGottfriedGGR

56b3c05a06dee_HellwichSergFwGottfriedGGR

Kind regards
Andreas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Chris Boonzaier said:

Hi Andreas,

how did he get that ??

All the best

Chris

 

Hi Chris,

he got it for the Franco Prussian War of 1870 / 71

Cheers
Andreas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andreas, really nice bar.

Will it be possible to post complete pictures of obverse and reverse?

Regards,

Nick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have taken the liberty, Locktsar, of directly posting the image we are discussing as I believe you are more likely to get an answer if people can view it without having to download a .pdf file. 

2016-02-05_15-18-25.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Peter, 

he was indeed one highly decorated soldier.

1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th class St.George crosses.

+

3rd and 4th class St.George medals

one of the last three medals looks like commemorative medal "300 years of Romanov house".

Couldn`t figure out with certainty what are the others two.


+

He has a regimental badge of His Imperial Highness Grand Duke Tsarevich Alexei Nikolayevich Lifeguards Moscow Regiment .

 

Best,

Nick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Locktsar said:

New to this forum but in desperate need to get some help in trying to establish some family history.

This is a photo of a relative. The "family legend" tells that he served in the personal guard for the tsar family - and yes I know this can be a very wide description. There are lot's of different parts that are referred to as to tsar Nikolaj II personal guard. Nevertheless this is part of what I am trying to establish. The photo is from 1915 and he is 25 years old. It has always been said that he was highly (?) decorated and there was reference that he had been awarded the St Georges Cross in all 4 classes. Now from what I can make out from this photo - the 4 medals to the left do seem to be St Georges Cross - they are all identical from what I can see.

Anyone who can support that by looking at the photo?

Secondly - anyone have a guess on what the other medals might be? I make it to be 5 more medals - not sure if the last item is a medal or a symbol for the regiment?

Thirdly - anyone talented in identifying imperial Russian uniforms and could tell/guess what regiment he belonged to?

img-203161755-0001.pdf

Hello Locktsar;

Welcome to the GMIC website.  An excellent photo of a family member.  Let me first just say, Wow what a nice medal bar!  It goes without saying that it would be a real nice to see in person.  You and Andreas are correct.  There is little doubt, the first four crosses are the St. George Crosses in all four classes.  You can't see the metal color, but the first two on the left are gold, the second two are silver (like Andreas' example).  The 1st Class and the 3rd Class are further defined by having bows on the ribbon.  Again it is hard to make out, but you just discern them.

The next five "coins" are likely campaign medals.  The ribbon hue patterns may be the best clues to which, but by the age you mention of the recipient, and the date of the photo, I would suspect medals like; Zeal Medal, 1812-1912 Centennial medal, 300 year Romanov Rule medal. 

Then it gets harder to guess; 1914 Mobilization medal?, Life Saving Medal, First General Census?

If he was older I would suspect medals like; Turkish Campaign, China Campaign, Boxer Rebellion, Alexander Coronation, or Russo-Japanese War.

There are others here that will have some great ideas of which medals he earned.

Yes, the last device is a Regimental badge.  

Edited by Claudius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trooper D, many thanks. You succeeded where I failed. Somehow I couldn't get the photo there in the 1st place. Like you say this will hopefully get more people to see and share their views.

Many thanks to you and to Nick (JapanX) and Claudius.

Thank you Claudius. So from what I gather the photo is of him when he is 25. He was born 1890 so that's how the photo allegedly is from 1915. He was born in the municipality of Rebola in Karelia. Not many Karelians made a career in the tsar army and allegedly unusual for someone to become that decorated. The "family legend" then says that he was imprisoned several times 1917 and onwards, one of the first should have been in Kronstadt and have been wounded (shot) in his leg. Legend further makes out that by coincidence he was spotted by tsar Nikolajs doctor who managed to get him from the prison to take him to a hospital ward ("..this man will die here unless he gets some medical attention...") and that is how he managed to escape. The era between late 1917 is somewhat unclear but we know that in 1927 he managed to get across the border to Finland where he remained until 1949 when the Russian (bolsjeviks) were on to him again and he again had to flee - this time to Sweden where he lived until his death.

The medals we believe were lost - they were stripped off him when he was captured.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

He was a Karelian?  That is interesting!  I came across that area and the people there when I was reading an account of western intervention during/after WWI in North Russia, (The Murmansk Venture by C. Maynard)  He discussed how different groups in North Russia were vying with each other; Whites, Reds, White Finns, Red Finns, etc.  The Karelian's were among them, hoping to carve out their own country. 

This is great account of his life at this pivotal point, and probably correct.  The medals being lost is not too surprising.  Many of these bars didn't survive (or we haven't seen many that are in very private, private collections).  a pity.  If we all agree that two of the "coins" are St. George Medals, I would feel a really good guess is that the other three are; a Zeal Medal, a 1812-1912 Centennial Victory over Napoleon medal, 300 year Romanov Rule medal, but one of them could still be a 1914 Mobilization medal (last medal?).

Thanks for sharing!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Claudius said:

 

 If we all agree that two of the "coins" are St. George Medals

It doesn`t matter if "we all agree" or "we are not".

These are St.George medals.

As for the other three.

From left to the right

Most likely

100 years of  patriotic war 1812 (ribbon looks like a vladimir one) 

img127.jpg

Then 300 years (again because of the ribbon) 

22.jpg

Here comes a photo of St.George cavalier from the very same regiment with these two medals

2.jpg

Edited by JapanX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The last one looks like it has light blue St.Andrew ribbon 

2 (2).jpg

200 years of Gangut without the chain? 

22.JPG

But he doesn`t look like a sailor to me.

Although some army guys also got this medal (but only чины полков, участвовавших в сражении)

Coudn`t figure out what is it. 

Now the good news.

Here comes our hero in full glory 

 

 

35.jpg

35 -.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Romanov Ivan Gerasimovitch (14.09.1891-?).

Ensign Life Guards Moscow Regiment. From the peasants of Olonets province, Povenets County, Rebolskoy township, village Kolvas-Lake. Before military service was a hunter. Joined Life Guards Moscow regiment in 1911 ( 8th Company). From January to May, he served in the ranks. On June 4, he was sent to work on modernizing the Russian-Norwegian border, where he stayed until August 18, and then returned to service. In September 1912 he became a scout.

Promotions

Corporal in February 8, 1914

Junior non-commissioned officer in March 24, 1914

Senior non-commissioned officer in April  1914.

Sergeant-major in July 5, 1915

Ensign July 23, 1915 (as a result of his 1st class St. George Cross) 

He was awarded with

St. George medals

4th class number 56552

3rd class number 77350

St. George crosses

4th class number 5494 ?

3rd class number 46848

2nd class number 19632

1st class number 9437 (or 5536)  

Medals

"In memory of the 100th anniversary of the Patriotic War of 1812"

"In memory of the 300th anniversary of the Romanov dynasty"  

:cool: 

Now a short article about Ivan Gerasimovitch from 4th issue of "Heroes and trophies of the Great People's War" that was published in 1916.

Полный Георгиевский кавалер Романов Иван Герасимович

Подпрапорщик Лейб-Гвардии Московского полка Иван Гераси­мович Романов , из крестьян Олонецкой губернии Повенецкого уезда, Ребольской волости, деревни Колвас- Озеро. В г. Повенец был призван на военную службу и зачислен в Лейб-Гвардии Московский полк, в рядах которого ему привелось принимать участие в Великой Войне. Пo зачислении в полк Романов с 4 января но 4 июля 1912 г. прослужил в строю, а с 4 июля был командирован на работы по обновлению Русско-Норвежской границы, где пробыл до 18 августа, а затем вернулся в строй. За ряд выдающихся боевых отличий Романов имеет следующие награды: Георгиевская ме­даль за храбрость 4-й степени, № 56552, и 3-й степени, Георгиевские кресты всех четырех степеней: 4 ст. № 5494, 3 ст. 46848, 2 ст. № . , 1 ст. № 5536.
Георгиевская медаль 4-й степени была получена Романовым в бою под крепостью Ивангородом 11-го октября 1914 г. Наш гвардейский корпус наступал на австрийцев, окопавшихся вблизи крепости и подвергавших артиллерийскому обстрелу форты крепости и ж. д. станцию. При наступлении 8-я рота Лейб-Гвардии Московского полка попала под пулеметный огонь и под его влиянием рассыпалась по полю. Тогда старший унтер-офицер Романов, как командир 2-го взвода, скомандовал: "Стой, ложись". Наведя таким образом в роте порядок и предотвратив замешательство, Романов наметил фронт и приказал окопаться. Окопавшись, рота отстреливалась до самого вечера и остановила наступление противника.
Георгиевская медаль 3-й степени была получена им 23 апреля 1915 г. за разведку, когда он находился уже под Ломжей, на германском фронте. Обстоятельства этого дела заключались в следующему Романов, под начальством офицера, участвовал в разведке с целью узнать какая неприятельская часть находится против Л.-Гв. Московского полка; послано было еще 27 сол­дат. Была уже совсем темная ночь, когда разведчики, отойдя шагов на 800 от наших окопов, оставили в кустах, в качестве резерва, 15 человек, а остальные 12, под начальством офицера, двинулись далее. Когда под­ползли к проволочному заграждению противника на расстояние трех—четырех шагов, они были встречены ураганным огнем неприятеля, которым один из участников разведки, ефрейтор Еликов, был ранен. В виду ураганного огня противника, офицер приказал отступать назад к резерву. Во время отступления офи­цер попал в глубокую яму и разбившись никак не мог оттуда выбраться. Тогда Романов, не взирая на ураганный огонь, подошел к офицеру, взял его на плечи и донес вплоть до резерва, куда неприятельский огонь не достигал и оттуда вся разведка без потерь отошла к нашим окопам. При возвращении в окопы там не оказалось раненого Еликова, а между тем последний немедленно после ранения получил разрешение возвратиться в окопы. На другой день его различили в бинокль в поле еще живого, так как он поднимал голову. Тогда Романов взял с собою перевязоч­ные материалы, палатку и флягу с водой и пополз в поле. Добравшись до раненого, он перевязал его, напоил водой, положил на палатку и ползком добрался до окопа, таща за собою на полотнище палатки ране­ного.
Георгиевский крест 4-й степени был получен Романовым 25 августа 1914 г. в бою под Люблоным, где при­шлось иметь дело со смешанными австро- германскими войсками. Вечером того же дня Лейб-Гвардии Москов­ский полк получил приказание занять ближайшую воз­вышенность и выбить противника из трех рядов расположенных на этой высоте окопов, где, кроме того, находились еще 42 орудия. Когда Лейб-Гвардии Москов­ский полк бросился в атаку и находился от неприятельских окопов в 200 шагах, противник открыл по наступавшим ураганный ружейный, пулеметный и артиллерийский огонь, от которого пострадали не только
 

56b504da17c8c_22(2).thumb.jpg.c0622ff0d1

Романов, будучи ранен в левую руку, заколол противника

 

Георгиевский крест 2-й степени получен Романовым за удачно произведенную разведку 2 ноября 1914 г. Штаб Лейб-Гвардии Московского полка находился в деревне „Задрожье" (Петроковской губернии), когда вечером Романов и рядовой Попов были посланы на разведку с целью узнать силы врагов, расположенных в деревне, и определить место их сторожевого охранения. Разведчикам удалось установить, что сила противника не менее двух дивизий и что их окопы были с проволочными заграждениями. Вернувшись, развед­чики доложили об этом командующему батальоном поручику Маркевичу. После этого 2-й батальон выставил сторожевое охранение, в котором находился и Романов в качестве начальника 2-й заставы. За точное доставление верных сведений о противнике Романов получил Георгиевский крест 2-й степени.
На другой день 3 ноября, утром, противник открыл орудийный и ружейный огонь и начал наступать. Но ружейным огнем нашего сторожевого охранения, противник, силою в 2 роты, был отогнан назад на свои позиции. После этого сторожевое охранение было сменено и отправлено в резерв, но на сле­дующей день, 4 ноября, должно было вместе с ротой выступить в новый бой, во время которого был ранен ротный командир и командование ротой принял подпрапорщик Емцев. 4-го ноября вечером Романов получил приказание занять позиции в прорыве между окопами 6-й и 16-й роты. Получив в свое распоряжение полуроту, Романов вполне успе­шно исполнил задачу. 5-го утром противник перешел в наступление и силою в одну роту обрушился на Романова. Подпустив противника шагов на триста, Романов вдруг открыл по нем огонь. После трех залпов, не ожидавший такой встречи противник был обращен в бегство, а после 12 час. дня снова перешел в наступление уже силою в батальон и ста­рался во что бы то ни стало прорвать нашу цепь. В виду недостатка в патронах, Романов пошел за ними в батальонный резерв, находившийся в 1/2 версте, при чем идти пришлось по открытому полю под сильным ружейным, пулеметным и орудийным огнем. Взяв 4 цинка патронов, Романов вернулся снова в окопы, причем его шинель оказалась пробитой в 18 местах, двумя пулями были пробиты цинки, находившиеся под мышками, а сам он был ранен в левую ногу, ниже колена. Тем не менее патроны были доставлены и про­тивник был задержан. Продержавшись до вечера, Ро­манов в виду большой потери крови, должен был в 11 часов вечера отправиться на перевязочный пункт.
Наконец Георгиевский крест 1-й степени был получен Романовым за бои под Брест-Литовском, 23 июля 1915-г., вблизи Владавы, где участвовали германские войска. Лейб-Гвардии Финляндский полк был выбить из окопов артиллерийским огнем в то время, как 2-й батальон Л.- Гв. Московского полка находился в резерве. Между Л.-Гв. Московским и Л.-Гв. Павловским полками образовался прорыв, причем германцы углубились внутрь нашего фронта шагов на 800. Тогда 8-я рота Московского полка получила после 12 часов дня приказание во что бы то ни стало занять снова окопы Финляндского полка, что и было ею исполнено. В 2 часа дня германцы были выгнаны из этой позиции, несмотря на то что 8-я рота понесла большие потери. Исполняя обязанности фельдфебеля, Романов держал полный порядок в роте, подавая пример храбрости и ободряя уставших, за что и был награжден Георгиевским крестом 1-й степени.
1-го августа в тех же боях под Брест-Литов­ском, Романов был контужен в голову и ранен в правую руку осколками 8-ми дюймового снаряда. Си­лою взрыва Романов был выброшен из окопа и засыпан землей. В виду серьезного ранения Романов был отправлен на излечение в Петроград.
 

 

 

Edited by JapanX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is how village where Ivan Gerasimovitch was born looks today  

1.jpg

BI59_4VrAMU.jpg

Ik3ZKKzJMZs.jpg

Edited by JapanX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nick - you are blowing us away here. A true oracle of knowledge. I say this because I had not mentioned his name in this search. His name was Ivan Romanov (Ibi Romanainen) from the village of Kolvasjärvi in the municipality of Repola (russian Rebola). The family was well off and had a large farm there. He was born, as far as we knew 29th sep 1890. He was known to be an avid hunter and scout, something that he maintained throughout his life. Looking at the photo there are distinct similarites with the photo you have found and the one we had. Eyes, mouth. He is probably just a few years older in the photo you have found. We have relatives that have said that in St Petersburg in the Heremitage there is a photo of Ivan with his medals - I wonder if it is the photo you have found. I assume you made the connections with the combinations of medals.

This is truly wonderful - there are too many details that are identical - I am pretty sure we have the same person identified. So are you saying the photos are from the village of Kolvasjärvi?

I am useless in Cyrillic but my wife should be able to read the article.

Still hard to digest this and the power of internet and people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Without any doubts this is our Hero ;) 

Just now, Locktsar said:

 So are you saying the photos are from the village of Kolvasjärvi?

Yep. 

Just now, Locktsar said:

We have relatives that have said that in St Petersburg in the Heremitage there is a photo of Ivan with his medals - I wonder if it is the photo you have found. I assume you made the connections with the combinations of medals.

Don`t know about Heremitage, but Artillery museum in St.Petersburg certainly has this photo in its collection.

See http://www.prlib.ru/Lib/pages/item.aspx?itemid=120920

It was made somewhere between late 1915 and 1916.

It was published in the book that I mentioned earlier. 

Very famous photo.

Although the quaility of printing was pretty terrible 

22 (3).jpg

Just now, Locktsar said:

 I am useless in Cyrillic but my wife should be able to read the article.

Try to use electronic translator.

Like this one

http://translate.google.com/

Not top notch quality but better than nothing ...

Edited by JapanX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Japan X,

 

Congratulations and thank you for an astounding example of research.

 

Wild Card

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can only concur Wild Card. Nick has done an excellent piece of work.

Nick - did you figure out what the last medal was? I went back over your reply and I might not have understood it.

Also - any idea why the hat is different between the 2 photos?

I also think the old "family legend" about a photo of him in Heremitage museum may well be wrong. It may just have been that a photo of him existed in a museum in St Petersburg.

We have tested the two photos with a few relatives and they all concur that it is him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Just now, Locktsar said:

Nick - did you figure out what the last medal was? I went back over your reply and I might not have understood it.

 

Impossible to tell with certainty. 

As I said earlier most likely this is a commemorative "200 years since the Battle of Gangut" medal.

 

Just now, Locktsar said:

Also - any idea why the hat is different between the 2 photos?

You mean visor cap vs. papakha?

Maybe because of the season or maybe because of the scenic design ;) 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another question - any suggestions where one would start to try and find if any of these medals were recoverable? I mean are there are sites where these sort of medals are traded?

All suggestions welcome,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5.2.2016 at 16:18, JapanX said:

Andreas, really nice bar.

Will it be possible to post complete pictures of obverse and reverse?

Regards,

Nick

Hi Nick,

unfortunateley I haven´t made a photo from the reverse and now it´s in the safe deposit box.

56bf59fd0b4fb_HellwichSergFwGottfriedGGR

Cheers
Andreas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Stogieman said:

what is this one?

219251.jpg

Hi Rick,

please show us the reverse side.

Regards

Andreas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...