Knights cross - original or fake

[TheKnight]

Can anyone give me an opinion on this medal. Is it genuine ? 

[Gordon Craig]

I suggest that a lot more pictures would be needed to provide an informed answer to your question.  But to start with, the ribbon doesn't look right to me nor does the loop that it is passed through.

Regards,

Gordon

 

[TheKnight]

Thanks Gordan appreciate your comments and any other views people may have, these are the only 2 pictures I can get unfortunately.

 

 

[Alex K]

In my opinion It' actually looks more like an EKII converted to a RK at some point, the difficulty is knowing when it was done, quite a simple job, it could have been done during the war or it could have been done 6 months ago from "Period" parts, unless you have full "Provenance" you'll never know, sorry

 

regards

 

Alex

[Eric Gaumann]

7 hours ago, Alex K said:

looks more like an EKII converted to a RK at some point,

Yeah, that's exactly what it is; an EK2.  RK had the suspension loop parallel to the frame, EK2 loops are perpendicular (see image).  That's not to say it wasn't worn that way (as a RK); there were instances of that happening in WW2.  But unless there is some seriously solid provenance proving that it's just an EK2

[Alex K]

9 minutes ago, Eric Gaumann said:

Yeah, that's exactly what it is; an EK2.  RK had the suspension loop parallel to the frame, EK2 loops are perpendicular (see image).  That's not to say it wasn't worn that way (as a RK); there were instances of that happening in WW2.  But unless there is some seriously solid provenance proving that it's just an EK2

Agreed, they certainly were worn that way during the war, normally by those that had received their preliminary notification, but not their actual award, or those that chose not to have their award damaged in combat, normally there would be some evidence of wear either on the medal itself, or on the ribbon, press studs, ribbon ties etc, the one originally posted doesn't seem to show any of such examples, so it's anyone guess when it became a Pseudo RK in my opinion

 

regards

Alex

[TheKnight]

Thanks for all your opinions. This medal is for sale along with an award certificate for a knights cross. If the certificate is genuine it is probably worth more than the medal. If the award certificate is real there is still no proof that it has anything to do with the modified ek1. My search for a genuine rk will continue. Thanks again

[TheKnight]

another one for ye guys. Is this the real deal. And if so any idea of its value

[Alex K]

Nope!  sorry

 

Alex K

[TheKnight]

K thanks Alex

[toot]

wasn't using a I-C 2sd substituted for a RC in the field many times when no RC was to be had? then presented with the correct RC award when back home? 

[Graf]

On 20/02/2019 at 16:20, Alex K said:

In my opinion It' actually looks more like an EKII converted to a RK at some point, the difficulty is knowing when it was done, quite a simple job, it could have been done during the war or it could have been done 6 months ago from "Period" parts, unless you have full "Provenance" you'll never know, sorry

 

regards

 

Alex

Hi  Toot,

Yes, that was the practice on the field, however unless the items come directly from the family with a very strong "Provenance ( better with Photo of the awarded person wearing the converted EK2)' then the door is wide open for speculations.

Because the "converted' EK2 to RK demands bigger price it is quite temping for certain people to do so now and claim that it is a period conversion. I even would not trust "reputable" dealers because even they can be tricked or worse knowingly selling such item as "period conversion"

[toot]

are EK11'S FIELD ISSUED AS KNIGHT CROSSES CONSIDERED AS KNIGHT CROSSES?

[Eric Gaumann]

5 hours ago, toot said:

are EK2'S FIELD ISSUED AS KNIGHT CROSSES CONSIDERED AS KNIGHT CROSSES?

They weren't issued as such.  They were just placeholders worn until the real award was presented.  The wearer was treated (I assume) as a real RKT.  Are they considered RKs now? No, although it's debatable.  If one could find such an example (EK2 as RK) with 100% undeniable proof of it's authenticity then you could own/display/sell it as an 'EK2 worn as a RK'.  But it's still not a RK.

[toot]

ERIC GAUMANN, thanks for the come back to my query. that would be a hard sell as you described.

[Fafnesbane]

Last cross in this thread is a fake. Sorry.

[Stojan]

Hi everyone, I found this EK2 conversion into a RK. But after I read all the previous information, before buying it I'd like to know your opinions about it. This example is ceirtanly a better produced example than other I've seen, the loop was carefully changed to seem like a RK loop. 

Any help will be appreciate. Thanks.

 

 

 

[dond]

You will never be able to prove it was used as a KC.

[Stojan]

Yes I know, as long as we don't have any document or photo. But it think the cross itself is a nice example, I don't want to spend mony excessively buying this medal.  Do you know in wich prices rangos these medals oscillate ?

 

[Alex K]

I would say the price of a messed with ek2, without rock solid provenance as wartime produced and worn, its value is whatever you want to pay for it in my opinion, sorry 

[Stojan]

Thank you Alex. I think you are right, without any photo or document that proves that the cross was awarded during wartime, it's not worth spending 200-300€ on it.

 

[Graf]

On 15/01/2022 at 17:54, Alex K said:

I would say the price of a messed with ek2, without rock solid provenance as wartime produced and worn, its value is whatever you want to pay for it in my opinion, sorry 

I agree Any conversion could be war time or made recently

The question is if the collector wants to have it or not.

[Alex K]

One final point to consider, at some point you may want or have to move it on, if youve "overspent", trying to convince other sceptics (like me?) that it is what it claims to be might prove problematic