Medal bar

[CRBeery]

I mainly collect Imperial German items but admire many of the Austrian pieces. I recently was able to purchase out of part of an old collection and found this medal bar. It seems to me that Austrian medal bars are a bit of a mine field so I generally do not even look at them. I had originally dismissed buying this bar but took a second look.

My collecting mentor collects Austrian as well as Imperial German and taught me that the backs of Austrian medals can hold some nice surprises. 

I also found the circled A on the bottom of the silver medal in the second position.

[922F]

Great Find!

[Christian1962]

Good morning,

maybe I can give your bar a name. Just checking the list of Austrian officers in active service in March 1938 there would be just one candidate with exactly this combination of medals:

Niedermayer Karl (28.01.1890 – 06.08.1965), Oberstleutnant and commander of TelBaon 7 (signals batt.),

serving in the Wehrmacht with the staff of "Kommandeur der Nachrichtentruppen XVIII" in 1939.

I can´t check if he was doing duty in "Präsidialbüro des Kriegsministeriums" in 1916. Maybe there was another guy who was not longer in active service in 1938. 

The mark "A" means the medal is made of silver.

Regards

Christian

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Christian1962

[1812 Overture]

Oh, my god! Nice to see you in this wonderful group. you are right! There may be surprises on the back of the Austrian medal. I also collected a group of bars about two weeks ago, but I don't look as good as you. The front looks normal, only to look carefully at the back, there is a wonderful discovery!

PS：Why do you have military officers in your portfolio for 25 years, but there is no 60-year medal for the Emperor Franz to ascend to the throne?

[CRBeery]

Wow! Many thanks for that. Is this from a Rank List? It makes the bar very special to me when it has a name.

Thanks to all!

[Christian1962]

3 hours ago, CRBeery said:

Wow! Many thanks for that. Is this from a Rank List? It makes the bar very special to me when it has a name.

Thanks to all!

It´s partially from a Rank list of 1937 and other sources (Ostmark-Medal).

Referring to the 2nd bar: it would be helpful to see a detailed pic of the inscription on the backside of MVK III.

Be careful: he hast NO 25-years-service cross but the "Mobilisierungs-Erinnerungskreuz 1912/13". We can assume that he was not commissioned yet in 1908, so he did not receive the 25-years-cross before March 1938.  Otherwise it is possible that he did not wear it on his bar. Not all officers did so. 

But we can be pretty sure that he became POW in 1914/15 (Przemysl?) and came back in 1918 or later. Otherwise he would have received more medals during WW1.

Regards

Christian

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Christian1962

[tifes]

Hi,

I am also referring to the first bar and I understand "1812 Overture" note saying: "Why do you have military officers in your portfolio for 25 years, but there is no 60-year medal for the Emperor Franz to ascend to the throne?" the way that if some A-H officer got a Long Service Cross for 25 years (MDZ III. Klasse) even in 1918 then I would also expect to see Jubilee Medal 1898 (JEM 1898) and Jubilee Cross 1908 (JEK 1908) on the bar.

Regards,

Tifes

 

[Christian1962]

I see what you mean. I would assume that the service cross should be a 1934 - 1938 type and not a 1849 - 1918 one. The ribbon is a 1934 - 1938 ribbon and they would have used the 1849 - 1918 type as a taylors copy.

An officer awarded the 25 years cross in 1918 would have served from 1893 on and therefore would have been born minimum in 1872/73. Such officers had to retire with age of 50 in 1922/23 and would not have been in active service in 1938 at an age of 65/66 years. 

If it would have been a veterans bar (then for a senior officer) there would have been higher grade decorations on it, like an Iron crown III. class f.e. 

The "Ostmark"-medal is a distinctive hint that the officer was member of the NSR (Nationalsozialistischer Soldatenring). This makes it more probably that he was in active service in 1938.

With 40 years experience as collector and 30 years as military historican I would tend to see my first thesis as more likely.

But as always with austrian officers: all is possible...

Regards

Christian

 

[1812 Overture]

3 hours ago, Christian1962 said:

I see what you mean. I would assume that the service cross should be a 1934 - 1938 type and not a 1849 - 1918 one. The ribbon is a 1934 - 1938 ribbon and they would have used the 1849 - 1918 type as a taylors copy.

An officer awarded the 25 years cross in 1918 would have served from 1893 on and therefore would have been born minimum in 1872/73. Such officers had to retire with age of 50 in 1922/23 and would not have been in active service in 1938 at an age of 65/66 years. 

If it would have been a veterans bar (then for a senior officer) there would have been higher grade decorations on it, like an Iron crown III. class f.e. 

The "Ostmark"-medal is a distinctive hint that the officer was member of the NSR (Nationalsozialistischer Soldatenring). This makes it more probably that he was in active service in 1938.

With 40 years experience as collector and 30 years as military historican I would tend to see my first thesis as more likely.

But as always with austrian officers: all is possible...

Regards

Christian

 

Dear old gentleman, I have never seen the 40-year long-term service of the Austro-Hungarian Empire appear in the German medal bar. Have you seen it? If so, can you show me the picture?

[Christian1962]

Thank you for confirming my opinion. It is evident that the owner/maker of this bar used an old style cross to substitute a 25-years-cross from the 1934 - 1938 period because they were - not congruent but - very similar with their doubled-headed eagle. Or they took even what was on stock - however.

The bar doesn´t appear to be a fake anyway. Therefore it´s the best conclusion.

Regard

Christian

[tifes]

Thank you for an explanation, Christian. It sounds very logic to me. It wasn't my intention to challenge originality of the bar at all. No doubt that´s very fine one with uniquely dedicated Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with War Decoration.