Old style ribbon bar

[drspeck]

Dear all,

 

Just wanted you to show my most recent purchase, an old style ribbon bar pulled from the evil-bay. Is it for a Badener? And any thoughts on what that last ribbon could be?

 

Best. Peter

[VtwinVince]

Very nice, didn't notice that one on fleabay. I think it is a native Badener and the last decoration could be something from Braunschweig.

[Dave Danner]

It could also be someone in a Baden regiment who followed a mixed Prussian/Baden precedence (Prussian orders followed by Baden orders, followed by Prussian service decorations/medals, followed by Baden service decorations/medals, followed by everything else).

 

That's based on my assumption that the third ribbon is a faded DA ribbon, and not a Crown Order. Splitting Prussian orders would not make sense, and the blue on the reverse of the bar appears darker.

 

If the last ribbon is the Henry the Lion, a possibility is Willy Berthold Johannes Kreßmann (*1.7.1866 in Stettin, †30.8.1914 in Wadelincourt). He died of wounds received at Sedan on 29. August as the commander of I./RIR 69. He was in IR 113 from 1893 to 1913, transferring to IR 69 on his promotion to Major on 27.1.1913. He is the only one in my Baden Jubilee Medal list with this combination of awards, and since he died so early in the war, his prewar ribbon bar would likely not have been updated with any wartime awards.

[drspeck]

3 hours ago, Dave Danner said:

It could also be someone in a Baden regiment who followed a mixed Prussian/Baden precedence (Prussian orders followed by Baden orders, followed by Prussian service decorations/medals, followed by Baden service decorations/medals, followed by everything else).

 

That's based on my assumption that the third ribbon is a faded DA ribbon, and not a Crown Order. Splitting Prussian orders would not make sense, and the blue on the reverse of the bar appears darker.

 

If the last ribbon is the Henry the Lion, a possibility is Willy Berthold Johannes Kreßmann (*1.7.1866 in Stettin, †30.8.1914 in Wadelincourt). He died of wounds received at Sedan on 29. August as the commander of I./RIR 69. He was in IR 113 from 1893 to 1913, transferring to IR 69 on his promotion to Major on 27.1.1913. He is the only one in my Baden Jubilee Medal list with this combination of awards, and since he died so early in the war, his prewar ribbon bar would likely not have been updated with any wartime awards.

 

Dave, thanks for the information. I hadn't looked at it that way but it does make sense not to split the Prussian orders. Interesting name

Edited January 5, 2022 by drspeck

[BlackcowboyBS]

I can confirm the award of the KC 2nd class of Henry the Lion to Kressmann on 10.th September 1909

 

[drspeck]

1 hour ago, BlackcowboyBS said:

I can confirm the award of the KC 2nd class of Henry the Lion to Kressmann on 10.th September 1909

 

 

Nice, thanks for taking the time to look up this information

Edited January 5, 2022 by drspeck

[ostprussenmann_new]

Whatever it is, awesome ribbon bar

I love Baden items

[saschaw]

A beautiful bar that I would have loved to obtain as well, but... prices went pretty up for these, it seems. My first association with the last ribbon was a Papal Ordo Sancti Gregorii Magni... might that actually be another possibility?

 

 

[saschaw]

Working on the assumption that "Brunswick" ribbon may actually be the mentioned Papal one instead, I found another suspect in the Prussian 1907 rank list: Major Rauthe from Landwehrbezirk Metz with RAO4, DA, BZ3bE and PGr3:

 

 

What do you think, could it be his bar as well? Or am I the only one to believe these two ribbons, BrH3b and PGr3 are almost indistinguishable from each other... ?!

 

 

[BlackcowboyBS]

I agree with you, that the ribbon of the St Gregory the Great does indeed looks pretty much the same, so your Major Rauthe is another possibility. Good to know, I would have bought it and would have believed having a ribbon from Brunswick! 

[saschaw]

On 08/02/2022 at 20:25, saschaw said:

What do you think, could it be his bar as well?

I really should have bothered the forum search as well: We have already seen Major Rauthe's medal bar many years ago! Besides some additional later awards, it does not feature Baden's 1902 BRJM - so this ribbon bar cannot be his!

 

Dave Danner seems to have been right here all the time with his suggestion the bar might probably be Willy Kreßmann's... I really cannot imagine there was someone else with exact this combination.

 

 

[Nicolas7507]

I have another candidate.

 

Generalmajor aD von Beck. Vorsteher des Bekleidungsamtes des VII. Armeekorps.

 

He had an KO3, but received it only in 1913, so he could be a good candidate.

 

[saschaw]

8 hours ago, Nicolas7507 said:

He had an KO3, but received it only in 1913, so he could be a good candidate.

The von Beck were Baden nobility, so it's easy to assume Leonhard von Beck also had a BRJM... however, according to Deutscher Ordens-Almanach 1908/09, he also had a China commemorative medal - given his Bekleidungsamt position, almost certainly in Stahl. Thus, he is probably not our man, I'd say, and would still go with Kreßmann...

 

[Nicolas7507]

Thanks! Forgot to look him up in the Almanach...