Waldeck and Finnland

[webr55]

Got my first Waldeck ribbon bar: EK2, Hessian Bravery Medal, Waldeck (gilt swords - class unclear at first) - and last is the ribbon for the Finnish Medal of Liberty, 2nd cl. (thanks Rick!). A strange combination... officer?

Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

Here's the back... looks like a wartime bar...

Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

BUT!

The seller sold another miniature chain which belonged to this bar. And he confirmed to me that both belong together. The chain consisted of the following:

EK2, Hessian Bravery Medal, Waldeck 4th cl with X (!), Silesian Eagle and Finnish CoL 3rd class (!). There was also a later ribbon bar that went with it:

Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

Obviously, my short ribbon bar was a late 1918 construction where there was much confusion and unclarity regarding Finnish ribbons.

But the second bar tells many things: I'm convinced that this is a junior officer of one particular regiment, the 3rd Garde-Ulanen. They were in Finland in 1918 and they had a Waldeck connection: The prince of Waldeck was à la suite of this regiment.

Edited July 14, 2021 by webr55

[webr55]

Could this be narrowed down further? Consulting Pete's list of officers in Finland and crosschecking them with the Waldeck award roll, I found a couple of suspects from the 3. GaUR (and some quite interesting personalities):

[Herbert Alfred?] Mumm v. Schwarzenstein (1898-1945), 1919 Lt aD

-> executed as resistance fighter. But according to his bio, he studied law from 1919-21, very unlikely to also have been in Silesia at that time.

Wolfgang Gans Edler Herr zu Putlitz (1899-1975), 1919 Lt aD

-> a future spy for Britain, died in the GDR, but also studied directly after WW1, no Silesian involvement likely

[webr55]

I have two favorite suspects:

1) Leutnant v. Zitzewitz (3. GaUR), 1919 Lt aD

Not in Wehrmacht 1939. There is a very vague possibility for a later Major (1.1.43) in KavallerieReg 11, but there were several cavalry Zitzewitz'. So no certain trace after WW1.

2) Leutnant v. Strantz, 1919 Lt aD

In 1939, he is most probably the Hauptmann (E) (1.5.34), Dipl.-Ing. in WBK Halle. Seems to have made Oberstleutnant (1.4.44) in RüstungsInsp XI (Kdo RüstBer Hannover).

Edited July 22, 2021 by webr55

[webr55]

Ah yes, and the later ribbon bar has a light grey backing:

Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55

[Daniel Murphy]

Great ribbon bars, especially that second one by Godet. Made even better by the fact that you can narrow it down to being owned by 1 of 2 men. I hope you can find out which one.

Dan Murphy

[Claudio]

The grey backing and needle system of the long ribbon bar indicates that this bar was assembled by Godet & S?hne, very likely after 34-36.

Ciao,

Claudio

[webr55]

Yes, and the miniature chain was also made by Godet.

[webr55]

A question for Rick: Could you look up the original Waldeck citations for Zitzewitz (18.9.17) and Strantz (21.6.18), whether they contain any additional information?

The Berlin address books (1925-43) list two Oberlt aD Zitzewitz:

- Karl, a Reichsbank-Oberinspektor, and

- Herbert, living in the "v. Zitzewitz'sches Haus" - I'm inclined to think it might be him.

[Guest Rick Research]

There were 39 WV4Xs awarded to officers in the 3rd Guard Uhlans ( no 3rdX and only one OfficerX Class).

Most of these are completely hopeless BUT

there is exactly ONE with a known HESSIAN connection:

Leutnant (aD that rank) Georg Friedrich Graf zu Solms-Laubach (1899-1969). Daniel has his birth and death years as well as the notation that he received the pinback Hessian Kriegerehrenzeichen-- and so held a "HT" as found on your bars.

You'd have to ask Daniel where that informaation is from, but it is a very odd combination and no other suspects known.

[webr55]

Very interesting, the Hessian count! I'm wondering however whether the pinback Kriegerehrenzeichen would be on his miniature chain?

Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55

[Blitz]

Waldeck and Finland, there is always a first..

[Guest Rick Research]

Either EVERYTHING was worn on a chiain (2 EKs, Wound Badge etc) or only the ribboned awards were-- with the pinbacks and any Commander grades being worn in full size.

That 3rd Class fits in with what a German Leutnant would have gotten-- assuming the mini chain supplier got it right!

[Beau Newman]

I just picked up this little lapel enlisted ribbon group.

EKI & EKII, Waldeck Service Medal, Austria Bravery or Military Merit Medal, Finland Medal of Liberty, Finland 1918 Liberation Medal, Hindenburg Cross and Hungary WWI Commem. Medal.  Any thoughts on what unit might have had a Waldeck/Austria/Finland connection?

 

 

[webr55]

Nice lapel bow indeed! Interesting combination, similar to my bar but with Austria instead of Hessen. I would guess yours was not from 3rd Garde Ulanen. 

Might have been 22nd Infanterie-Division, they fought on the Russian front and were likely to have got Austrian awards:

 

[GreyC]

Hi,

the IR 83 for example, was a Waldeck unit that fought with the Austrian Army in Galizia.

15.11.1915-29.3.1916: Fighting around the river Styr within der Heeresgruppe Linsingen
units:
Gen.Kdo. XXIV.Res.Korps (1.Inf.Div. bis 13.6.16; 22.Inf.Div. bis 29.3.16)
K.u.k. Korps Fath
K.u.k. Kav.Korps Hauer
K.u.k. Kav. Korps Lehmann

GreyC

 

[Dave Danner]

3.GUR is possible, given its Waldeck connection. Officers of the regiment received at least a dozen Austro-Hungarian Military Merit Crosses, so there were likely also a number of enlisted awards of the Bravery Medal.

No way to say for certain. By 1918 a Waldeck native could have ended up in any number of units in Finland which had no Waldeck connection.  Indeed, since it was a Guard unit that could recruit anywhere, a Waldecker could just as easily have ended up in 1.GUR and gone to Finland with that regiment.

IR 83 officers did receive a number of Austrian awards, but there's no direct Finland connection.

[Beau Newman]

I appreciate all the feedback.

[webr55]

The Kölner Local-Anzeiger, 2.6.1918, lists Graf zu Solm(s) as a recipient of the Cross of Liberty:

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by webr55

[Dave Danner]

Rather a random list. These officers are from several different units.

 

Lt.d.R. Severin Keller was from the bay. Geb.Kan.Bttr. 12, while Lt. Heiko Ohling was from the 4.2.GRFußAR.

Lt. Hans v. Winterfeld was from 2.MGK/JB 14, Lt. Friedrich Freimüller was from 1./JB 14, and Lt. Karl Krafft was from 2./JB 14.

"Kobeling" is Lt.d.L. Wilhelm Köberling from 3./JB 4. Bauer was an active Lt. in 1./JB 4, whose first name I have not yet found.

I have no idea who "Griegheim" is supposed to be.

"Arnich" is Arnicke, of which there were two - Lt.d.R. Bruno Arnicke from the 95.RIB staff and Lt.d.R. Erich Arnicke from mob.Et.Kdtr. 326, both born in Finland.

"von Zedwitz" is probably Lt. Egbert v. Zitzewitz from 5./3.GUR.

"von Poser" is Lt. Hans-Arwed v. Poser u. Groß-Nädlitz from the Saxon Karabinier-Regiment. Lt.d.R. Gerhard Merkel was also from the Karabinier-Regiment. There were actually two Körners and one Koerner in Finland, all three from the Karabinier-Regiment (Lt. Gottfried Körner, Lt.d.R. Rudolf Körner and Lt.d.R. Richard Koerner).

"Graf Schimmelmann" is Lt. Theodor Graf Schimmelmann v. Lindenburg from 1./3.GUR, although OLt. Heinrich Schimmelmann v. Lindenburg from 2./3.GUR was also a Cross of Liberty recipient.

Lt.d.R. Hans-Wilfried v. Versen was from 2./1.GUR.

And last is the aforementioned Lt. Georg Friedrich Graf zu Solms-Laubach from 4./3.GUR.

 

By the way, you can eliminate Wilhelm v. Strantz. I have seen his HPA file. No HT.

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Dave Danner
grammar fix

[Soderbaum]

Hi

 

I do think that Griegheim might be Lt von Griesheim, but there were like four candidates with this name.

 

Gunnar

[Dave Danner]

3 hours ago, Soderbaum said:

Hi

 

I do think that Griegheim might be Lt von Griesheim, but there were like four candidates with this name.

 

Gunnar

Actually, on further review of my Ostsee-Division officer list, I think it must be Lt. Krafft v. Kriegsheim from the MG-Eskadron of the 3.GUR. He had the WVK4X, so he is another Waldeck/Finland combination. No known connection to Hessen-Darmstadt, though.

[webr55]

Great research, thank you! So much new light on this 15 year old case!