Nick

I will post my small collection of mounted Third Reich Medals over the next few days. To start:

Rick I have to agree

That crown looks very much like a Kings crown to me Edward VII to George VI ?

Phelan A very emotive issue and as you say a difficult subject to research in an impartial manner. It stirs up age old passions and emotions. Also very difficult for us to put into context and understand in today?s modern age. As you say the victor often has the prerogative to write history to suit their own ends. Without a doubt getting an unbiased viewpoint from either side of the spectrum will be a difficult thing to manage, as you rightly know there is still too much passion there in Ireland and to a certain extent in the US on this issue. Here in England it is very much the forgotten past with the more recent troubles in the North being the central focus in every ones minds. But even that is (hopefully) being consigned to the history books. Having read of the exploits of the regular RIC and DMP during the troubles I can only comment that there were without a doubt atrocities undertaken by both sides. However I can also say that the actions of some RIC officers and men rate as some of the most gallant acts of bravery and dedication to duty I have ever encountered. That same dedication and heroism was in my opinion carried through in the North by the RIC men who became the RUC and this torch was carried down through later generations to the modern troubles. The Black & Tans are name most people remember from that conflict and are most definitely associated with the worst aspects of the Crown forces. I for one would like to see what the truth is behind the name. Bob uses two extremes, gallant, noble and renegade enforcers. I would believe that the truth is somewhere in the middle, a mixture of both. But you are going to have your work cut out in finding the truth and I wish you the best of luck for a challenging project.

Ed I agree they are pretty cheap, nasty and to top it all not even officially named.

Spot on. The one on the right is an original.

This might help you. But which one is which ? Copies/fakes are also used by legitimate medal holders when they do not want to wear their original medals. This is particularily so for certain gallantry awards which are far too valuable to be worn in public.

Rick Its more the ribbon I am interested in, than the fading. It is to my best knowledge a silk ribbon, look at the edging/finishing.

This is an unusual pair and I am sure Rick R will come in on this one. What do you all think.

Indeed do not forget that King George V renamed his family name from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha to Windsor in 1917. Obviously a shrewd move when hundreds of thousands of men were dying for their King, the last thing they would want reminding of was his ancestry.

Gordon Copies have been made in their thousands. Despite its numbers the Golden Jubilee still demands a surprisingly high price compared to other mass distributed Coronation and Jubilee medals (1977 aside). Copies are usually quite easy to detect when you know what to look for. Most of the copies I have seen have far to much detailing when compared to the originals, the lines around the Queens head are far too pronounced especially on her hair and gown. The originals have far softer lines to them. Copies have a legitimate place as many people do not wear the original and have copies court mounted to be worn. But beware of unscrupulous dealers who have been putting fake medals in original boxes, especially the Army Boxes. The Army distributed their medals with labels attached to the box detailing name rank and number. Quite a few of these boxes which were discarded by their owners have been found being sold with fake medals inside. Ebay has had a few of these about. There are also copy boxes out there but they do not usually come with the Royal Mint certificate.

Well it is a shame that he has been forced to sell them, but he may as well benefit from them now rather than when he is dead. He has no family to leave them to, so lets hope they have enough health between them to enjoy their last years together in comfort.

The Cheshire Yeomanry

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3926

Lets get back to medals, other issues dealt with elsewhere.

Post have been removed and this thread has been locked as this is a clear attempt to stir up the same old arguments seen on other forums. Quite frankly I am not interested in listening anymore to this issue, it is boring and unless some real good evidence is unearthed to swing this either way, I am going to ban further discussion on this topic until further notice. Reason for ban: It is a divisive, inconclusive debate

He would have been entitled to the 1897 Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee medal. 1902 King Edward VII Coronation Medal. 1911 George V Coronation Medal. There may also be some limited records of his service at the Metropolitan Police Museum as they hold some Divisional Records.

Bob Good question as there is a rumour of a lot of Czech fakes out there. Nick

Just for your info the award was damaged and is bent in the centre.

The best photo I can find for the moment. A close up of the skull would show dotted lines on the cranium of the skull. The acorns also have stippling on the bottom shells.

I have not got access to my pictures of my hollow back at the moment, but there is a marked difference in detail especially on the skull. When I get them I will post them up later today. Nick

Martin Welcome to the forum. I am afraid the problem with these badges is that for every person who says they like this badge you will get another who says they don't. There are far too many self appointed experts out there who would give you any number of reasons why they don't like it or why they do. As Prosper has highlighted because of this 'unknown' element many collectors would not touch any Bandenkampfabzeichen. I can't claim to know any more than the average collector. I have had one of these in my collection in the past which I was 99% sure was original, but as with all these badges I couldn't be 100% certain. But this does not help you, nor will my response as I may be right or may be wrong in my assessment. But rather than sit on the fence I will stick my neck out and say that I don't particularly like the lack of detail on this badge. The skull lacks detail as well as the acorns on the wreath. I have found that this type of semi hollow backed vacuum cast award may be pretty rough in appearance and finish, but what they shouldn't lack is detail. What I perceive to be good awards have a lot of detail on the obverse. It may just be the photo, but your badge to me lacks detail. Nick

Gordon Can we have a close up of the skull please. I have a love hate relationship with these badges. More verging on the hate I agree with PK that these post Junker type badges are always the most controversial and raise the most concerns. This has been compounded by an array of very good fakes that try and match this type of manufacture and design. I can't comment on the gold wash but would like to see more closeups of the badge itself. Especially the skull.

I have seen these for sale in Europe at medal dealers as well as fleamarkets so they are out there ! I have also a lot of plastic 'modern' copies of various tinnies many of which were not originally made in plastic.

Marcus I was recently disturbed to learn that an Ek2 packet I sold (a few years back) with original EK and ribbon is probably a fake (the envelope that is). The packet came from a lot of various envelopes bought from a well known dealer a few years back if I recall correctly. Can you give us more of a general input on EK2 packets and what to look out for. Nick