ekhunter

How many twin post pillowbacks have you seen? Not counting yours of course. I saw one several years ago, can't remember where, maybe ebay, estand, or a dealer (D.N., Weitze, Barry?) anyway, if I recall correctly, I think this particular cross may be the same one, maybe. If you got it from one of these sources, then it probably is. If not, if you got it at a show or an individual, well then, that means I know of two of them that exist!

Yes, I do, If I have to take out a second mortgage on the house, or take any food out of my babies mouth, I absolutely draw the line there.

Did Rothe and Neffe make other military medals? If so, how did they mark these? Number, Symbol, Logo? If anyone has an undisputably marked Rothe and Neffe item, I would love to see it. I sincerely have my doubts as to whether R&N ever made Iron Crosses. Until then, the search continues! I was going to mention J.H. Werner marked crosses are very hard to find, but I see Micha already has one of these too. Someone had one of these for sale a few weeks ago over on WAF. A real beauty of a cross. Does anyone have a Wagner or Werner with fangs that they would like to show?

Yea, I read the posting by Enzo. I think I need a little something more than the memory and word of a woman and what she remembers from 55-60 years before. It's amazing to me how these sat in the shop of Rothe & Neffe from, say 1918 to the 1970's, and she was absolutely sure they were made there by the firm. As much as I want to believe, it's hard to. Reminds me of the little old lady from a small shop in Germany who took me in the back and eventually sold me a 935 post war RK as an original issue piece that she had since the war.. Sorry but I'm just very skeptical to stories............

You want rare makers. No conversation about rare makers would be complete without a mention of the most elusive maker of all. (Rothe & Neffe) Find one of those, and you will truly be the master, and the grail shall be yours.

They say chum in the water always brings the sharks to the top! Please Greg, would you share pictures of your double posted pillowback and Godet with fangs! These are the ones I was talking about. Very rare, and very nice.

Well, I don't know about the rarest particular maker, but I do know some of the rarest variations of makers that I would love to have. At the top of my list is the Hansen screwback with the 'small disk'. It's marked DRGM Angem. These were made before they had their DRGM protection, probably early 1914. I've only seen one of these before, and it belongs to Dan Murphy. I would rate this even higher than the Godet with fangs, and believe me when I say this because I covet one of those Godets' very badly. Knowing your ability to find crosses, you'll probably have one next week in your collection, if you don't already have one, but the early Hansen would be at the top of my list. Probably third, would be the AWS with full size backing plate and doulbe post. I know where only one resides, and he'll probably read this soon. He also has a Godet with fangs. Some people are just Greedy! After that, I would have to say the screwbacks with the extra large plates(larger than the cross). I would still buy every DRGM K.M.S.T., and pillow-back(especially the marked ones-AWS) cross that I could get my hands on too, within reason of course. But of course, with these high end items that are so extremely rare, try to define reason, I wish I could. Just knowing that these are in collections out there is what keeps us going, maybe, just maybe, one day!!!!!!!!!!!

So Chris, is their anything you want to share?

I didn't even know that Orth marked any of his crosses L/14. Truly a beauty, and like I've said before, I learn something new every day.

Thank you very much. I've been anticipating seeing these. I was away this weekend riding waverunners with the family, and I get back to start my monday morning looking at these beauties. Very nice crosses Micha, so is the one belonging to Marcus. I would say at the rate Micha is filling the holes in his collection that his ship of iron will never sink. I will have to add the L/57 to my long list of wants, along with the L/18 pinback I've been looking for. Just lost out the other day, and just by seconds on a Imperial 1st class with hooks. This would have given me three variations of crosses with fangs/hooks, and the fourth type, and definately on my most wanted list, is the Godet with fangs. Maybe one day! You are doing quite well my friend with finding the hard to finds. We're all just a couple of Iron Cross junkie always looking for our next fix. The more you get, the more you want, this hobby just never seems to end. Life is good

Very nice and unique, as I've never seen this type of clamshell before. If you could, a picture of the 'post' on the reverse of the cross would be nice, and maybe helpful. I suspect that this cross is very early one, say, maybe late 39.

Does anyone know for sure, and without a doubt, who made them, besides Deschler? I've seen Ben Bijkers pinback variations of Deschlers,, then their are the Schinkel form crosses, and the early pinback variety, and that's just first classes. Please, if anyone knows something for sure, please don't leave us hanging. I've always suspected that their were several more than one maker due to the variances of these crosses in both first and second classes, but what makers is the $64,000.00 dollar question.

I was wondering who had broke my heart and beat me to this one a few weeks ago. You were pretty fast. I'm glad I found out who got this one, I figured someone would have to show this very unique one sooner or later. I'm glad to see it. Very nice cross, and one that I would have been very proud to have in my collection.

Never seen an L/14 or L/57 before. Would love to see those two. Actually, I would love to see them all, but especially those two. I also noticed a nice looking Imperial cross in the box! Would love to see that one too.

Dave, these are excellent examples, and with pieces like these, their is never any need or possibility of upgrade.

I too would like to see the reverse of the cross. Of course it could have an L/55 stamp under the pin also, but I would be surprised. Many, or should I say most of the W&L's that I see with non ferrous cores are unmarked, and this one appears to be non ferrous.

Who??? I've never heard of this guy! I figure I better edit this before someone took me seriously. Great choice!

I too have searched for the elusive Rothe & Neffe ek, and to date, without success. Could it be a strong possibility that Rothe & Neffe was the maker of fine cases for ek's and was fitted/supplied with German made crosses? This is simply a theory, but if Rothe & Neffe were a manufacturer of ek's, then you would think that you would at least see them out there. Maybe we have and they were unmarked, maybe we have them in our collections as unknown makers, who knows? My point of contention is, if this firm was a manufacturer of these crosses, then a unique mark or core exclusive to this firm could probably be linked to them. I think to say a cross is a Rothe & Neffe without something definitive, well, is a stretch. I've seen Meybauers' and AWS' called Rothe & Neffe, but haven't seen a marked cross that I believed to be a R&N, at least not to date. If anyone has a Rothe & Neffe, then I would love to see it.

Pictures?

Very, very nice! It would be nice to think that this cross once had a backing plate with it, but it's also very likely that it did not come with one. Again, beautiful cross, I'm very jealous, but happy to know that beauties like this one are still out there.

Very nice cross, polished or not, the core is what I really like about this one. This type of core is pretty hard to find. Typically with this maker you encounter the 'muffin type' crown. Good to see you resurface!

Thanks for the tip about moving the old edition, it just about paid for the new one. Everytime I hear a car drive by, I run to the door to see if my book has arrived. Not yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only Iron Crosses that I have with 'somewhat' provenance is an ekII from WWI that was awarded to a German Jew named Gottlieb Krause (rank unknown and military history unknown). He and his family migrated here after the Great War, and years after he died, his granddaughter (my friend) gave me this cross. She said he kept it in his jewelry box until his death. She said she was playing with the box one day and found it, and he told her he earned it fighting in France in WWI, but he never bragged about it, as he was ashamed at what the Nazis had done to Germany after they left, and didn't really care for the medal anymore. He actually told her to sell it or give it away when he died. I have the medal today in my collection, and it is one of my favorites, one because I know the family and some of the history, and two, because the core is blued. Anyway. she (my friend) is going to write me a letter describing how it came into my possesion. Just thought it was a neat thing, and something I hadn't thought about in a while until reading this thread. Thanks. Also, if anybody ever comes across anything on Gottlieb Krause, please let me know.

Where o where are you finding these? You must be the one with the time machine, becuase that is just too nice!

You are right, duh!!! I misread what you had said. I was thinking transitional crosses. I guess I'm not all here today, sorry.