laurentius

The rolls by Roth have been procured. Thx all

Dear fellow collectors, I am aware that the Saxe-Altenburg Zivildienstauszeichnung has 446 recipients (including 3 women). I was wondering if anyone had the rolls by roth? I am not looking for a particular name, but I was able to buy one of these rare pieces and I should like to browse the list of recipients. Kind regards and thanks in advance, Laurentius

Did anyone here end up buying this lovely picture?

It is an original gold piece by the Dutch company Becht & Elbers. I have the same. Made between 1865 and 1891.

It seems the Ebay-fakes have permeated to the dealers https://www.weitze.net/militaria/38/Anhalt_Erinnerungszeichen_an_den_90_Geburtstag_der_Herzogin_Witwe_Frederike_zu_Anhalt_Bernburg__442538.html

That is always allowed, but if one scrolls through the list of recipients there are a couple of names I would not credit with bravery like Paul von Hindenburg or Crownprince Rupprecht. As one descends from the grand crosses down to the lower grades the amount of bravery awards increases and military merit awards goes down.

Dear fellow collectors, The city Archive of Wetzlar has written back to me. They said that Göbel lived in Wetzlar from 01.01.1906 and that he moved to Bad Homburg on the 23nd of may 1910. This probably coincides with his promotion. Prior to living in Wetzlar Göbel lived in Betzdorf. He probably got it after 1909, since it isn't lised yet in the Ordensalmnach that Uwe mentioned. I consider it possibly that he got it after 1918, although I would find that unlikely. At this moment we will have to wait, I have also written to the archives of the cities of Hungen, Bad Homburg and Hagenau. Kind regards, Laurentius

Hello Uwe, Thank you for your reply, I didn't know Göbel had two decorations in 1909. I was aware of his Phillipsorden but I didn't know he had a long service decoration for working in the Hessian railways. That gives us an idea regarding his age. He must have entered service around 1884 or earlier. He was therefore probably born around 1860. Unless 'Hungen, Hess, 2. 8. 51.) is his date of birth. We know he got his House Order of Orange in 1913 and it was only around 1918 that he received the RAO4 and the Prussian verdienstkreuz für Kriegshilfe. I still don't know when he got his Bulgarian Civil Merit Order, but since it is a King Ferdinand issue it would have been between 1908 and 1918. Kind regards, Laurentius

I checked and it is indeed a king Ferdinand issue from between 1908 and 1918. Here are the pictures. Kind regards, Laurentius

Hello Graf, Thank you for your reply, I bought this medalbar a few days ago and it's coming to me as we speak. It was advertised as a medalbar belonging to a diplomat. As a collector of both Dutch and German awards I immediately knew that this wasn't a diplomat's bar. The last decoration is the very rare Dutch House Order of Orange with only 167 awards between 1908 and 1969. This decoration was given out at the personal behest of the monarch for 'services rendered to the royal house'. We know the names of all 167 recipients. Based on this I started scanning the list on people from Hessen, since the combination and sequence of the decorations pointed in that direction. It was clear to me it had to be someone connected to the royal court in Hesse. I ended up with a list of 12 possible persons, of whom Ludwig Göbel or Goebel was the most likely candidate to me. With the help of several collectors I was able to confirm that: - Ludwig Göbel received the Hessian Order of Phillip the magnanimous (2nd award) as Oberbahnhof Vorsteher in Wetzlar on 15. november 1904. - Ludwig Göbel received the Dutch House Order of Orange (last award) on 4. April 1913 as station director in Bad Homburg vor der Höhe. - Ludwig Göbel had received both the Red Eagle Order (3rd award) and the Verdienstkreuz für Kriegshilfe (1st award) by 1918 as Baurat in Hagenau in 1918. Persons working for the railway were amongst the most decorated persons in the German Empire and this would not be an uncommon combination for someone working at the train station of Bad Homburg. Especially given the fact that many different royal families came together there. This would explain the four different orders and the Verdienstkreuz and explain the abscence of an Iron Cross. Given the rarity of the House Order I think this medalbar is identifiable and to correctly identify it to Ludwig Göbel I need to confirm (somehow) that he received the Bulgarian Civil Merit Order somewhere around 1900-1920. Any help would be appreciated. Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear fellow collectors, I am doing research into Baurat Ludwig Göbel. I was wondering if anyone could conform that he received the Bulgarian Civil Merit Order fifth class? I was able to confirm his Dutch and German awards, but my unfamiliarity with Bulgarian awards prevents me from dong so. Thanks in advance. Kind regards, Laurentius

Given the quality of the cross and especially the ribbon I would wager this piece came from the Schrägstick faker. Not original in my opinion.

Around 120 give or take if I'm not mistaken.

I'm in two minds about this medal. I disagree that it is not original simply because it misses the mark of Rudolf Mayer or because of the suspension. There are plenty (albeit the silver grade) of medals made as Spangenstücke with a useful ring rather than the nasty and difficult hanger. However, given the uneven gilding and some sloppy details overall I would say that this is not a period-piece, whether awarded or purchased. Especially the variation in thickness of the brim on the reverse of the medal is troubling for me. I wouldn't go so far as saying it is fake, but I would surely not buy it for my collection. Here is a piece of mine, the bigger gold grade made of gilded non-precious metal (it has the little fly stamp at the bottom). Kind regards, Laurentius

The higher quality of the painting is not just the result of the period of manufacture, but also of the grade. The quality of decorations is always tied to the grade, with the higher grades usually having the better (if not best) quality. Kind regards, Laurentius