freiherr

Sorry, Rick. I have no idea it was yours. I would definitely have asked for your permission if I had known. Thanks Elwyn

This was discussed at the Axis History Forum and Glenn and Dave have kindly provided some expert ID. The occassion was 50 Jahre Befreiungshalle/100 Jahre Befreiungskriegs and 25 Thronjubiläum v Kaiser Wilhelm so everyone descended on Bavaria on 25.08.1913. In the group pic we can even see v Bothmer as Kapitan of the Leibgarde d Hartschiere with the over the top lion on his helmut. Up front on the right Glen had ID'ed the man as GenAdj Wilhelm Walther v Walderstötten. I assume the Bavarians wore their sashes on the right shoulder? (Anecdotal bling bling pics of Bavarian portraits seem to suggest so) But since it was the Kaiser's visit, those that had them wore Prussian sashes on the left shoulder -- what sash was WvW wearing? And how about Ludwig III's sash, different from the Ksier which presumably was the Black Eagle order? Cheers Elwyn

So we see the big wigs. FlüAdj Graf zu C-C as stated, der König, Militärbevollmächtigter in Berlin Karl FrHr Nagel zu Aichberg, Kriegsminsiter Otto FrHr Kreß v Kressenstein, GenAdj Wilhelm Walter v Walderstötten Cheers Elwyn

Ah... Erl must be Erlaucht, D must be Durchlaucht.. Oops you replied already. I can send you the whole pic I downloaded from the internet at some point. I don't own any pics like you guys do. I am just an information addict. Elwyn

Here's a tiny pic. With a lot of the Bavarian Offiziere à la suite der Armee, the names end with a Erl. or D. What does that mean? Otto had his entry as Graf zu Castell-Castell Erl. Cheers Elwyn

Hi Andreas, Officer that appeared in both pics was Obst Richard Satow, Kmdr of Kav Rgt 5 33 to 37. He was later GenLt and Kmdt v Stettin. A rare bird he was to sight! Cheers Elwyn

I think Edwin v Stülpnagel is a reasonable guess. I have these blurry pics. Cheers Freiherr

http://www.bilfinger-ahnen.de/genealogy/showmedia.php?&mediaID=30&medialinkID=32&page=1&PHPSESSID=ucme4eqnulrhq8mf23oclmcff2 These are 3 nice pictures of v Bilfinger from the family website here. Not everyhting is working but you can copy the pictures and view them using a photo editor. Cheers Elwyn

Not many Axis allies/ German allies during WW1 orders have a 7-point star. Could this be the Turkish Order of the Mejidie? Cheers Freiherr

Yes, that was indeed Schinerer Cheers Freiherr

That's him. Especially judging from the right hand side pic I am posting. The nose from your picture has a optical illusion that it was broken. Cheers Freiherr

Beggars can't be choosy.... this is the only pic of Commichau I have seen. He was the man seated second from the wall. Not your man, I wouldn't think. BTW, here we see KaHa Frank's trophy wife and the skirt chaser Heydrich and his wife. Then 3rd couple were the Toussaints, 5th couple the v Treuenfelds. Cheers Freiherr

The Generaloberstabsveterinär was Curt Schulze. We have stacks of pics of him already. Your RAD man was definitely not Curt so it could be the never seen before Wilhelm Schulze. Cheers Freiherr

Not Withoeft- Emden. Here's Siegfried Maßmann Cheers Elwyn

Wait... you have a picture of Schulze? Would you post it? We don't have it at the Axis History Forum. Cheers Freiherr

An Axis History Forum member suggested Heinrich Meyer Buerdorf. IMHO the general in question has a fuller face than the gaunt Meyer Buerdorf. I would suggest Otto Tiemann instead. Cheers Freiherr

2 of the 3 PLMs can ruled out: Bangert (a picture taken at a younger age showed him to be very thin) and v Wenckstern. That leaves Commichau. 3 of the 4 RK KvKs can be ruled out: Wagner, Eisenbeck ( looks a little like him but Eisenbeck was in East Prussia) and Pfrogner. That leaves Wilhelm Schulze RAD general in front was easy. That's Fritz Schinnerer, Gauführer of Gau XXXI specifically set up for Westwall. Cheers Freiherr

After a little research and much confusion, I found out this was Prinz Friedrich [Viktor] v Hohenzollern [sigmaringen]. Behind him in naval uniform was Prinz Franz Joseph v Hohenzollern-Emden (he served on the light cruiser Emden and was entitled to adopt the word Emden to his name), twin brother of Prinz Friedrich. They were all at the funeral of Friedrich August III v Sachsen in 1932. Both Friedrich and Franz Joseph married daughters of Freidrich August III. Prinz Friedrich's decoration on his pickelhaube was a sachsen sunburst. I think the collane Prinz Friedrich was wearing was that of the Preußen Black Eagle Order. But the medal itself was white, not blue. Likewise with Prinz Franz Joseph. To me it looked a bit like the Red Eagle Order. Can someone enlighten me and perhaps point to me if this was a Hohenzollern Sigmaringen order instead. Cheers Freiherr

III/GebRgt 99 was stationed at Sonthofen. Good chance he was related to Gebirgstruppe. Second ribbon from left Bavarian MV?. Third from left definitely an östterr MV, tapferskeitsmedaille or Signum Laudis m KD on Kriegsband. None of the 1 Geb Div generals. I tried some of the Truppenübungsplatz Kmdr in Wehrkreis VII but come up empty-handed. Too young for Hans FrHr v Riedel Abt Leiter b WEI München whom I have never seen before. Cheers Freiherr

That still leaves 7 generals at the "second table" behind the "VIP table", 1 at the small table on the extreme left (from our perspective) and 2 on either side of v Ruith at the VIP table and 1 to the left (from our perspective) of my candidate for v Viereck (looks like Kreß v Kressenstein Kmdr GrKmdo 2 but clearly not as we see only 1 pip and so a GenLt) Cheers Freiherr

Not sure as no one has seen him before.... could be GenLt Hans v Viereck, Kmdr 3 Kav Div that RR17 came under since 1927. Kmdr 3 Kav Div before and after v Viereck were respectively Paul Hasse and Curt v Geinanth. There were well known so neither of them

GenMj Albert Ritter v Beckh, MMJO träger, Kmdt v München 01.08.25 - 31.01.27

Char als Gen d Inf Adolf Ritter v Ruith, MMJO träger, Kmdr 7 ID that RR 17 belonged to until 1927

Gen d Kav Prinz Alfons v Bayern of course. But I believe he was the only Wittlebach there. Cheers Freiherr

I found this tiny Dürr from my files. It is from a "famous sons" site of some Baden city. I have him also as: Kmdr SeeBtl Jiaozhou Bay Inspk of Marine Infantry with OBKmdo über das Marine-Expeditonskorps im Herero Krieg 04 And Dave, thanks for the added info on the v d Heyde's Cheers Elwyn