Dave Danner

Wouldn't it depend on the Stammformation? In bayer. Sturm-Bataillon Nr. 6's infantry company, privates all seem to have held the rank of Infanterist.

No idea, though I imagine temptation could be hard to resist. Again, I was just speculating, but even an injury like falling from a horse might remove an older Major from frontline duty, but not qualify for a Wound Badge.

Possibly a new one (he isn't in any of my lists, except the Zähringen Lion rolls): Dr. rer. pol. Gerhard Wilhelm Roos, born 3 June 1883 in Cuxhaven. Received the BZ3bX on 19 August 1915 as a Leutnant, 1.Res.Kp., II./PB 14. Received the HOH3X on 1 November 1918 as an Oberleutnant and Führer, Minenw.-Kp. 402. He got the BZ3bX because he was in a Baden unit, but Cuxhaven was an exclave of Hamburg, so he also got his home state's decoration, the Hamburg Hanseatenkreuz, on 23 February 1918. Also: 1914EK1&2, 1939KVK1X&2X, VAw, FKE, WHDA3, and Luftschutz2. Regards, Dave

Joe Many thanks for that information! He was a Diensttuender Kammerherr Ihrer Majestät der Kaiserin und Königin.

My guess is probably a Major or Major z.D./OTLzD, whose only prewar awards in any rank list would be the RAO4 and DA. Unfortunately, there are dozens of these, and the Baden Jubilee only narrows it down a bit. The RKM and SKVK maybe narrow it down to someone in the rear, but again there are lots of those, especially among the recalled z.D. officers. I believe both the EK2 and the OFAK2 were awarded on the combatant ribbon to serving military officers even in Etappen- and Heimatdienst, so those don't really help, although it is possible he was a major with an Oldenburg connection who was wounded early in the war, getting the EK2 and OFAK2, and spent the rest of the war in homeland service, getting the RKM and SKVK. But this is just speculation.

Thanks again for all the help and insight. On the Centenary Medal, here is an older WAF thread I long forgot about with some good information from Rick and others: http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57132 Now a few more questions/examples, if it is no bother: 1. An Unteroffizier and char. Port.-Fähnrich, promoted to Port.-Fähnrich on 18.11.97, promoted to Sek.Lt. on 18.8.98. Absent finding a regimental Stammliste, is there any way to know/guess when such a person would have originally entered service? Was the officer commissioning process at the time a two-year process? 1 1/2 years? Is this a stupid question because there may have been too many different ways for regular officers to get commissioned, so there really isn't a standard? 2. An officer who entered service 1.4.92 as an Offizier-Aspirant, Port.-Fähnrich on 17.11.92, Sek.Lt. on 18.11.93, placed zur Disposition as a Hauptmann on 16.4.12. So, 20 years, 2 weeks of service at that point. Recalled to active duty in World War I, given the Charakter of Maj.z.D. on 27.1.15 and a Patent as Major on 15.7.16. The z.D. time from 1912 to 1914 shouldn't count, right? But the z.D. time in World War I would count, and be doubled, right? So if he got at least 2 1/2 years of wartime service, he should qualify, shouldn't he. Thanks again!

The Order of St. George is a house order of the House of Wittelsbach, not a state order of Bavaria. So it could be awarded after the war, even to this day. If he received the Kapitularkomtur, it was after he left the army, so it is not in the Kriegsrangliste entries.

You are missing a decoration. After BrH4, there is the initials "M3E". This is another award. • PLM = Kgl. Bayerischer Prinzregent Luitpold Medaille • MV IVb = Kgl. Bayerischer Militär-Verdienstorden 4.Klasse mit Schwertern • BG3 = Kgl. Bayerischer Haus-Ritterorden vom Heiligen Georg, Ritterkreuz • BrH4 = Hzgl. Braunschweigischer Orden Heinrichs des Löwen, 4. Klasse • M3E = Souveräner Malteser-Ritter-Orden, Ehrenritterkreuz • PK4 = Kgl. Preußischer Kronen-Orden 4. Klasse • BrsKrVK = Hzgl. Braunschweigisches Kriegsverdienstkreuz [2.Klasse] • HambHKr = Hamburgisches Hanseatenkreuz • AnhFriedrKr = Hzgl. Anhaltisches Friedrich-Kreuz • SA4b m Schw = Kgl. Sächsischer Albrechts-Orden, Ritterkreuz 2.Klasse mit Schwertern • WF4 = Kgl. Württembergischer Friedrichs-Orden, Ritterkreuz 1.Klasse • BrsKVKr 1Kl = Hzgl. Braunschweigisches Kriegsverdienstkreuz 1.Klasse

Crown Order 4th Class and Hesse Bravery Medal. Looks like maybe IR 81? If so, the only officer in the 1914 rank list with just a KO4 was a Hptm. Bielfeldt.

There was a Karl Laber, born 16 May 1882, in the ILR. He was promoted Leutnant der Reserve on 5 July 1916.

I guess it could be, but there's no notation in the file. Usually, Weimar and Third Reich pre-1938 awards are all listed. World War II awards are often omitted. Anschluss and Sudeten medals are often left out, too. Since I first posted this, I have found other Wehrmacht officers whose files are missing peacetime pre-World War I decorations. I have also noticed that the Deutsche Ordens-Almanach rarely lists the Baden Regierungs-Jubiläumsmedaille. Based on what Sascha posted in an older thread from the Baden regulations, an active officer in a Baden regiment in 1902 should have gotten the Jubilee. I suppose it will remain a mystery until and unless the bar ever shows up.

Thanks Glenn and Andy! A similar example: Günther Köpke, 6.5.1877-21.3.1918. According to the Offizier-Stammliste of LGR 8, Köpke entered service on 20.2.1896 as a Zweijährig-Freiwilliger, promoted to Portepeefähnrich on 12.9.1896, and to Sekondelieutenant on 20.7.1897. So as a Portepeefähnrich in March 1897, he would have been eligible for the Centenary Medal? He was promoted to Oberleutnant on 15.6.1907, but when he was transferred to IR 71 in 1912, he was given a new patent of 14.9.1905. Then, a few months later, he was promoted to Hauptmann (1.10.1912). How does that work? Was he given a backdated patent to make him eligible for promotion, or is there some other reason? Thanks and regards, Dave

According to his SS file, Hans Hohl from FAA 226 received his HOH3X on 2.5.1918 and it was numbered Nr. 5930.

There are actually three, not counting 19th century awards pre-dating the modern awards system. Besides Daly and Butler, the other was John McCloy from the Navy. McCloy's first Medal of Honor was awarded during the Boxer Rebellion, like Daly's first, and his second for Vera Cruz, like Butler's first. Interestingly, Butler also distinguished himself in the Boxer Rebellion, but as an officer, he was not eligible for the Medal of Honor. At the time, the Navy did not award the Medal of Honor to officers. Instead, he received a brevet promotion. Later, he was awarded the Brevet Medal, created to recognize those who were given brevet promotions for valor. Two other Marine officers received a brevet promotion for valor (and later a Brevet Medal) and later earned the Medal of Honor. Were they enlisted men, their actions for which they were brevetted would probably have earned them the Medal of Honor, so they probably deserve to be mentioned with Butler, Daly and McCloy. First was Wendell C. Neville, later 14th Commandant of the Marine Corps, who earned a brevet promotion for valor in Cuba during the Spanish-American War, and the Medal of Honor in Vera Cruz. Second was David Dixon Porter, who earned a brevet promotion for valor in the Philippines in 1899 and the Medal of Honor in the Philippines in 1901.

13's was II.Ers./GR 4 17's was II.Ers./GR 2 For Sturm-Btl. Nr. 2, it was Ers./IR 30. I suppose by this point in the war, someone who entered service as a Grenadier could have been almost anywhere. Wounded, then into IR 30's replacement system, or even into the MGK, which had its own replacement pipeline.

Friedrich Gottlob Erich Schlegel, 24.2.1866-26.4.1938, Evangelischer Feldpropst der Armee from 1919 to 1934 (and also of the Navy from 1929-34). From 1911 to 1917, he was the Evangelischer Oberpfarrer of the IV.Armeekorps, from 1917 to 1918 Oberpfarrer of the Generalgouvernment Belgien, and acting Feldpropst from 1918 to 1919.

Sturm-Bataillon Nr. 13 or Nr. 17, by any chance?

Thanks for your help. Really good information. One of the guys who brought this question to mind is probably on your list: Max Büttner, in 1914 a Hptm. in IR 173, still there in the January 1, 1919 Dienstaltersliste, and in the Ehrenrangliste as a Maj.a.D. He had the BZ3bmE in the 1914 RL. Based on what you've written, it would seem that we should probably be able to add the Centenary to this and likely the DA. In 1902, he was a Lt. in IR 111, so maybe also the Baden Jubilee Medal. So from a single decoration in the RL we potentially have at least four, not including an EK2, which is likely as well.

The third medal is the Oldenburg House Order, Knight 2nd Class with Swords, also received in the Franco-Prussian War with FAR 10. He had the DA beginning with the 1878 ranklist, so that would date the photo before then. I'm not sure what the last medal is, maybe the Langensalza Medal or something Austrian?

Some pics here: http://balsi.de/Homepage-Generale/Heer/W/Wa/Wahle-Carl.htm http://www.specialcamp11.co.uk/Generalmajor%20Carl%20Wahle.htm

I am finding myself confused and/or ignorant on a couple of things. 1. If an officer's Patent as a lieutenant is dated 17 April 1897, does that mean he entered service on that date, was commissioned later, and given a Patent backdated to then? Or does it mean he was a Portepee-Fähnrich before then, and became a lieutenant on that date? Thus, would such an officer have a Centenary Medal? He would have to have been on active duty in March 1897 to qualify, wouldn't he? 2. When would such an officer qualify for the DA? This is my calculation: Assuming no overseas service before 1914, he would have about 17.3 years of service at mobilization. So with double-counting, he would need 3.85 years of wartime service to reach 25 years. If he stayed on active duty through the war, this would be reached around June of 1918. Is this right? Am I missing anything? Thanks

Here is the statue of Friedrich I at Burg Baden in Badenweiler. It is perhaps noteworthy to Chris's point that they chose to memorialize him in this manner.

The officer in the middle appears to be wearing someone else's crusher, since his uniform is otherwise pre-Wehrmacht. He also appears to have a cloth Johanniterorden breast star, so he is a member of the nobility.

Werder, Albert Busso Leopold Hugo von * 22.7.1852, † 3.7.1936 22.03.1910 Generalleutnant 27.01.1915 Charakter als General der Kavallerie Kommandeur der 8. Division, 1910-12 Kommandeur der 4. Ersatz-Division, 1914-15 Kommandierender General des Korps Werder, 1915-17 Kommandeur der 10. Landwehr-Division, 1917-18 Stellv. Kommandierender General des IV. Armeekorps, 1918 http://prussianmachine.com/akb/werder.htm

Wild von Hohenborn, Johann Heinrich Adolf 8.7.1860-25.10.1925 Generalmajor 4.6.12 Generalleutnant 20.1.15 Dir., Allg. Kriegsdepartment, 1913-14 Kdr. 30. Infanterie-Division, 1914 General-Quartiermeister, 1914-15 Kriegsminister, 1915-16 Komm. General, XVI. Armeekorps, 1916-19 Ritter des Ordens "Pour le Mérite" mit Eichenlaube (PLM EL) http://de.wikipedia....d_von_Hohenborn http://prussianmachine.com/akb/wild.htm