Dave Danner

The "M" stands for Mereväe, or "Naval". Modern Estonian ships carry the abbreviation EML, for Eesti Mereväe Laev, or Estonian Naval Vessel. I'm not sure about the R.

Here is a medal bar to a well-decorated and as yet unidentified Bavarian officer with a Saxe-Meiningen connection. I don't have a closer scan, but if you can see it, the reverse shows this to be a 1905 Jubilee Medal.

I decided to revive and respond to this topic because (1) I keep seeing the medals confused, and (2) Rick's recommended search for "Luitpold" only turns up this thread. This is my understanding. Please let me know if I have made any mistakes and please add any additional information you may have. 1. By an Armeebefehl dated 12. März 1905, Luitpold, Prinz von Bayern, regent of Bavaria, announced the creation of the Jubilee Medal (Jubiläumsmedaille) for the Bavarian Army. The event was the 70th anniversary of Luitpold's entering the army. This medal is a bronze medal, oval in form. It is worn on a watered ribbon in the colors of the House and Knighly Order of St. Hubertus (cinnabar red with light green edges/zinnoberrot mit hellgrünen Randstreifen). The obverse has a bust of Luitpold and the inscription "LUITPOLD PRINZ-REGENT VON BAYERN". The reverse has the inscription: "AM 70. JAHRESTAG MEINES DIENST-ANTRITTES DER BAYER. ARMEE GEWIDMET XII. III. MCMV." The Jubilee Medal was awarded to (1) all active officers, medical officers and Fähnrichs, and all active higher officials (obere Beamten) in the military administration, (2) the Inhabers of Bavarian regiments and those officers à la suite to Bavarian units, (3) recalled officers and medical officers zur Disposition, (4) officers of the 1. Bavarian Field Artillery Regiment (Luitpold's old unit) who had been retired with the permission to wear the uniform, and (5) capitulant NCOs, Büchsenmachers, Waffenmeisters and Regimentssattlers. On 12. Juli 1905, this was extended to include all officers and medical officers zur Disposition, all officers, medical officers and higher officials retired with the permission to wear the uniform, and all officers, medical officers and higher officials of the reserve and Landwehr. The Jubilee Medal ranked after the Iron Cross 2nd Class but before any other awards of German states. 2. By a decree dated 30. Juni 1905, Luitpold created the Prinz-Regent-Luitpold-Medaille, This was a similar decoration for civil servants. This medal came in gold, worn as a neck badge, and silver, worn as a breast badge (I'm not sure if there was a bronze version of this award). It was oval and worn on a ponceau red (ponceaurot) ribbon. The obverse was exactly the same as the Jubilee Medal for the Bavarian Army, while the reverse had the crowned Bavarian coat of arms and the inscription "IN TREVE FEST 1905". 3. By a decree dated 6. März 1911, it was decided to award the Prinz-Regent-Luitpold-Medaille to all those qualified military personnel who did not already have the Jubilee Medal for the Bavarian Army. This medal was bronze like the Jubilee Medal, but the form was the same as the 1905 Prinz-Regent-Luitpold-Medaille. It was also worn on the same ribbon as the Jubilee Medal. Thus it was officially called the Prinz-Regent-Luitpold-Medaille in Bronze am Bande der Jubiläums-Medaille. The same personnel eligible for the 1905 medal were eligible for the 1911 medal. In addition, also eligible were (1) active lower officials in the military administration, (2) active Fahnenjunkers, (3) active Unterärzte and Unterveterinäre, (4) Bavarian officers, medical and veterinary officers, officials and NCOs in the Schutztruppen, (5) civilian instructors at military institutions and military chaplains, and (6) NCOs retired with permission to wear the uniform. Also, all recipients of the Militär-Sanitäts-Ehrenzeichen and the Militär-Verdienst-Medaille. The decrees don't mention Imperial naval officers with Bavarian citizenship, but like the Schutztruppen, I believe they were also eligible. Navy ranklists don't include the award. The regulations and decrees I have don't say when or under what circumstances the Jubilee Medal or the Prinz-Regent-Luitpold-Medaille was to be awarded with the crown, or whether the Prinz-Regent-Luitpold-Medaille in Bronze am Bande der Jubiläums-Medaille could be awarded with the crown. It isn't rank-based; plenty of generals don't have the crown on their Jubilee Medal. Most of the 1.FAR Jubilee Medal recipients do have the crown, though. ----- So, you have three basic medals 1. ponceau red ribbon, reverse with the Bavarian coat of arms and the inscription "IN TREVE FEST 1905".: Prinz-Regent-Luitpold-Medaille, mainly for civil servants. Here is a silver example from Uwe Bretzendorfer: 2. cinnabar red ribbon with green edges, reverse with inscription "AM 70. JAHRESTAG MEINES DIENST-ANTRITTES DER BAYER. ARMEE GEWIDMET XII. III. MCMV.": 1905 Jubilee Medal for the Bavarian Army (Jubiläumsmedaille für die bayerische Armee). Here is an example from medal-medaille.com: 3. cinnabar red ribbon with green edges, reverse with the Bavarian coat of arms and the inscription "IN TREVE FEST 1905": 1911 Prinz-Regent-Luitpold-Medaille am Bande der Jubiläums-Medaille. I don't have an example handy. So if you have a military medal bar, and the medal is on the red ribbon with green edges, you need to see the reverse to know whether it is the 1905 Jubilee or the 1911 PRLM. Again, please let me know if you have additional information or corrections, and please show some examples. Regards, Dave

I'm not sure about the date. It looks like a bump in the middle of the shoulder strap, so he is either a Major with a regimental device or an Oberstleutnant. If I'm right about the first four ribbons, the Austrian bravery medal is after the Honor Cross for Combatants, which would make it pre-Anschluss?

The photo below is of August Müller, It is the best quality I have, unfortunately. Even knowing exactly what awards he should have, I can't quite figure out the ribbon bar. His awards: August Friedrich Müller was born on 23.1.1884 in Fahrland, Osthavelland, Preussen. He enlisted in Garde-Maschinengewehr-Abteilung Nr. 1 (G.M.G.A.1) on 13.10.03. Various promotions followed and when World War I began he was a Vizefeldwebel. He was promoted to Offizier-Stellvetreter on 1.12.15 and remained with G.M.G.A.1 throughout the war. He was transferred to Reichswehr Kavallerie-Regiment Nr. 3 on 1.5.19 and commissioned a Leutnant (ohne Patent) on 5.6.19. Remaining in the Reichswehr mainly with the 4. Reiter-Regiment, he was promoted to Oberleutnant on 15.1.1921 with Patent from 26.11.1916, and to Rittmeister on 1.4.1924. He retired from active duty on 30.4.1926. He returned to duty in 1933 in the L-Offizierskorps and was promoted to Major a.D. (1.10.34), Major (E) (5.3.35), Major (15.12.38), and Oberstleutnant (1.4.39). Given his age, he wasn't a frontline officer, but served in the Waffenamt. He added the KVK2X on 30.1.43. On the ribbon bar, I assume 1 through 4 are the EK2, FKE, Austrian Bravery Medal, and Crown Order. Medal. But the last two don't look like DAs (maybe the first, although the color doesn't look right and I don't see any devices). Any thoughts? Regards Dave

Second-to-last is the Order of the British Empire, Military Division, on the pre-1935 ribbon.

Despite the thread title, which isn't JPL's but is from the linked article, the basic question is not whether he stopped being a hero when he did something infamous later. The issue is whether he ever was a "hero". The Navy's statement is that after review if found that his award was not justified in the first place. It is speculation by various parties that the Navy is lying. I can speculate just as easily, given that the award came over 20 years after the fact and given the recipient's connections to an ambitious politician, that the Navy is telling the truth and the award was wrongly given in the first place. My own speculation, which is just that, is that the reason the Navy revoked the award but is also reluctant to talk about why, is that it might be embarrassing for Senator Kerry. He may have exerted undue influence on Navy authorities to make the retroactive award to his former colleague and political supporter, influence that he now regrets. Also, for what it is worth, I do not believe it is U.S. government policy to revoke decorations actually earned because of later transgressions by the recipient. As far as I know, Randy "Duke" Cunningham still has his Navy Cross and two Silver Stars despite his conviction for bribery and tax evasion. And former Army Spec. John Stebbins still has his Silver Star from Somalia despite his court-martial conviction for sexually assaulting his daughter.

Hi! Very nice picture. None of the St. Henry, the Ernestine House Order, or the Hanseatic Cross appear in my sources for wartime awards to colonial forces. I would guess that like the 1920-awarded St. Henry, the Ernestine and the Hanseatic Cross were awarded post-war for his actions in 1914. Also, he wasn't promoted to Hauptmann until 1919, retroactive to 1916, and he was already a POW by that time, so the Ernestine may likely be a Knight 2nd Class for actions when he was still a Leutnant. Some additional information: Karl Erich Loßnitzer, born in Riesa i. S. on 4. Aug. 1886. Became "von Loßnitzer" when his father, Johannes Claudius Ludwig Loßnitzer (9.5.1848-14.7.1925), was elevated to the Saxe-Coburg & Gotha Adelstand on 19 July 1915 (the Kingdom of Saxony recognized the SCG Adelstand on 4 August 1915). OLt.: 24.12.14 Hptm.: 28.5.19 mit Patent vom 5.10.16 Maj. (E): 1.8.35 OTL: ? (1939-40 or so) His father was an Saxon Oberst z.D. and was Direktor der hzgl. Sammlungen auf der Veste Coburg (it is a nice collection; if you are ever near Coburg I suggest a visit). The father commanded the Landsturm-Fußartillerie-Bataillon XII. (K.S.) Armeekorps and then Landsturm-Fußartillerie-Regiment XII.A.K. He had the 1870 EK2 and 1870 Albert Order Knights' Cross with Swords (before the split into two classes) and received the Albert Order Officer's Cross on 11 Jan. 1916. Erich had three brothers and a sister. Dr. phil. Friedrich Alfred Max (8.11.1897-8.9.1914) was killled by Somme-Py as a Lt.d.R. in SchR 108. Johannes (13.2.1889-5/6.8.1918) was killed in action as a Kaplt. and Luftschiffkommandant. Wilhelm Otto Helmut (10.3.1898-?) was a Saxon Lt.d.R. in an RIR. Elisabeth Marianne (4.5.1893-?) was married in 1917 to Hptm. Kurt von Gilsa of IR 32. Regards, Dave

They appear to be Uzbek wings. Also, not a major, but Brig. Gen. Steven Duff, deputy commander, U.S. Army Special Forces Command (Airborne).

Given the crown and that they are older French-style shoulder boards, I would guess Morocco.

The NCO two rows behind the Grand Duke is probably Feldwebelleutnant Wilhelm Strobel. He received the Merit Cross of the Order of the Zähringen Lion on the ribbon of the Karl Friedrich Military Merit Order on 20.7.1916. Oberlt.d.L.a.D. Eduard Erxleben and Lt.d.L. Kurt Wibel received their Zähringen Lion Knight's Cross 2nd Class with Swords on the same date. They are probably this guy and the guy behind him: The two officers to the Grand Duke's right (our left) with the Knight's Cross 2nd Class with Oakleaves and Swords are probably Hauptmann Hermann Koch and Hauptmann d.L. Franz Walter. The officer over the Grand Duke's left shoulder with the cigar may be Hauptmann d.L. Friedrich Krank, who received the Knight's Cross 1st Class with Swords on 17.2.1916. However, the medal bar shows a peacetime Zähringen Lion to go with his Baden Jubilee Medal and LD2, which doesn't show up in the 1914 ranklist. Krank was a Notar in the Amtsgericht Kehl II, Landgerichtsbezirk Offenburg, so he might have gotten the peacetime award sometime in 1914.

The two Generals von der Heyde were third cousins: ┌─Paul Heinrich Sigismund Adrian (1862-1946) ┌─Paul Heinrich Sigismund August (1836-1910) ┌─Friedrich Wilhelm (1798-1864) Johann Daniel von der Heyde (1750-1808) └─Detlaw Gustav Friedrich Wilhelm (1785-1863) └─Friedrich Heinrich Sigismund (1816-1900) └─Hermann Heinrich Sigismund (1857-1942) Regards

6. Landsturm-Inf.-Btl. Heidelberg XIV/37 was assigned to the 10. Armee on the Eastern Front. Second from right, next to Gen. Dürr, is an officer with Bavarian general's Kragenspiegel. This would appear to be Generalmajor z.D. Karl Schupbaum. He was Inspekteur des Militär-Bezirks III, Etappen-Inspektion 10. His headquarters was in ... you guessed it ... Suwalki. Next to him, and between him and Feill, appears to be Generalmajor z.D. Georg Heer. He was Inspekteur d. Militär-Bezirks I, Wilna.

The officer to the Grand Duke's left and the viewer's right is Oberstleutnant a.D. Heinrich Feill. He received the Order of Berthold I, Knight with Swords, on 17 Feb. 1916 as commander of 6. Landsturm-Inf.-Btl. Heidelberg XIV/37. The officer at the far right with the Adjutant's badge and Berthold commander's cross around his neck is Gen.d.Inf. Carl Dürr, Generaladjutant S.K.H. des Großherzogs. He kind of looks like Scotty from Star Trek.

It says "Großherzog von Baden in Suwalki 26.7/16. ________________________ mit den Offizieren der Landsturmbat. Heidelberg" Can't make out the one word.

It is clearly something someone put together recently. The ribbons, the mounting, the precedence are all wrong, and the combination is questionable at best: a soldier no higher than Gefreiter with decorations from 5 different states. I would value it at no more than the total of the individual medals, which at least appear OK.

Probably not a native. Quite a few non-Bavarians served in the Bavarian Army. Among other scenarios, often a Prussian college student at Munich, Erlangen or Würzburg Universities would end up doing his military service in the Bavarian Army. If he was in the right unit in 1897, he would have gotten the Centenary Medal. If he stayed in as a reserve officer, he could have gotten the Jubilee Medal in 1905 and a Landwehr-Dienstauszeichnung. But by 1914 he is out of Bavarian service and back in some job in Prussia - junior civil servant or war industry, for example. He is not recalled to active Bavarian service, so no wartime military decorations, but his civilian or civil service position merits the Merit Cross for War Aid. For the third ribbon bar, I would guess a civil servant around the Rat level - Rechnungsrat, Baurat, Bergrat, etc. A PrVfK/RAO4/LD2 combination is not uncommon for these, and he would be old enough to have lost a son in the war. That's assuming it is a Red Eagle; I am getting more color-blind and sometimes can't tell a Red Eagle from an Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen. Regards

The first name is Bruno, so you likely have a German or Austrian recipient, but I can't make out the last. The first two letters are "Tu-" or "To-", and the last letter is an "r", but the middle combo throws me. The last part is an "h", which also can stand for an "e" or short "a", but the loop on the front may or may not be an "m". That could give you "To__er" or "Tu__er". Maybe Tummer. If there were another "r" after the "T", it might have been Oberst z.D. Bruno Trommer-Pasha, who served with the German Military Mission in Turkey. Maybe a misspelling?

The officer on the left appears to be a Teniente General (Lt. Gen.) of the Spanish Air Force, so I'd go with Owain's suggestion. Regards

RIR 93 is another example of confusing relations with parent regiments. RIR 93 was garrisoned in Magdeburg but had nothing to do with nearby Anhalt's IR 93. RIR 93 was, as you great-uncle's experience shows, a Guard unit. It was raised in Berlin by the 4. Garde-Regt. zu Fuß.

I don't know if Joe ever got an answer to this question, but just in case not: LIR 87 was mobilized with 4 battalions. The regimental staff and the I., II., and III. Btle. were raised in Mainz, and the IV. Btl. in Worms. There's your Hesse connection. The regimental staff was dissolved on 7 February 1915. II/LIR 87 and III/LIR 87 with the attached IV/LIR 76, a Mecklenburg battalion from Rostock, were assigned to 6.Armee in December 1914. This only lasted a few months, and in March 1915, II/LIR 87 became III/RIR 17 (RIR 17 was originally a two-battalion regiment from the Rheinprovinz) and III/LIR 87 became III/RIR 30. IV/LIR 76 became III/RIR 69 in summer 1915. RIRs 17, 30 and 69 were all from the Rhineland, so it is likely that by this point, the original LIR 87 and LIR 76 battalions had lost most of their Hessians and Mecklenburgers and the replacements were from the more populous Rhineland. The other two LIR 87 battalions, I/LIR 87 and IV/LIR 87, with the attached V/LIR 76 from Wismar in Mecklenburg-Schwerin, remained with Generalgouvernement Belgien and became Regiment Moß in early 1915. This was redesignated as the "new" LIR 87 in May 1915. I.Btl. remained the same, V/LIR 76 became the II.Btl., and IV/LIR 87 became the III.Btl. So "new" LIR 87 had two Hessian battalions and one Mecklenburg battalion. Also, regarding the 2xx-series RIRs, RIRs 201, 202, 203 and 204 were all raised from Prussian Guard regiments. As Glenn stated, RIR 202 was formed from the Ersatz battalions of GGR 1, GGR 2, and GGR 4 RIR 201 was formed from the Ersatz battalions of 2.GRzF, 4.GRzF, and the GFüsR RIR 203 was formed from the Ersatz battalions of 5.GRzF, GGR 5, and GGR 3 RIR 204 was formed from the Ersatz battalions of 1.GRzF, 3.GRzF, and the LehrIR I don't know if this makes things more or less confusing. :rolleyes:

The Bavarian military records on Ancestry.com or Ancestry.de It is a subscription service.

Karl von Reck, born 19 February 1864 in München. He commanded the 20.bay.IR until 31 July 1916. He then commanded the 8.bay.Inf.Brig. until 29 Sept. 1917. After that, he commanded the 39.Reserve-Division until demobilization on 9 December 1918. He was promoted Oberst on 25 Oct. 1913 and Generalmajor on 17 January 1917. He was characterized as a Generalleutnant on 2 August 1920. The medal bar is: 1. Bavarian Military Merit Order 4th Class with Crown (pre-war award) 2. Prussian Iron Cross 2nd Class (13.09.1914) 3. Anhalt Friedrich Cross (14.08.1915) 4. Bavarian 1905 Jubilee Medal for the Bavarian Army (pre-war award) 5. Anhalt Order of Albert the Bear, Knight 1st Class (pre-war award) 6. Princely Hohenzollern Honor Cross 2nd Class (pre-war award) 7. Prussian Order of the Red Eagle 4th Class (pre-war award) 8. Bavarian Long Service Cross for Officers (1st or 2nd Class depending on when the photo was taken; BDA1 on 02.05.1918) 9. Japanese Order of the Rising Sun (the Germans called it a Knight 1st Class, but I think the Japanese would call it a 5th Class) (pre-war award) v. Reck also received the Military Merit Order 2nd Class with Swords and Star with Swords (the 2nd Class is around the neck), the Iron Cross 1st Class, and the Wound Badge in Black. He also received the Military Merit Order 3rd Class with Crown and Swords and the Military Merit Order Officer's Cross with Swords, but these were replaced by the 2nd Class (the 4th Class stayed on the medal bar because it was pre-war).

- His name is on the picture postcard. - The SH3/SA3aX Albrecht Tasche appears to be the only Hauptmann Tasche in the Saxon Army - According to his entry in the Prussian Court and State Handbook, Tasche did have Saxon and Lippe decorations, although the entries there are messed up (they have "LMVK", which is not the abbreviation for an award in the index; it should be LKEK or LKVK; they also don't show the SH3 and the SA3a is missing a "[m.Schw.]", but messed-up non-Prussian awards are typical in the Prussian handbook) - Tasche received his SH3 on 21.3.15 and the SA3aX a year later, on 25.1.16. The picture may have been taken between those two dates, perhaps when he received the LKEK. Not a perfect answer, but my best guess based on the available information.

Dr. Albrecht Tasche was a Landesversicherungsrat in the Rheinische Provinzialfeuerversicherungsanstalt in Düsseldorf. He was commissioned a Sekondelieutenant der Reserve in Saxon IR 107 on 16 November 1898. He was promoted Oberleutnant der Reserve on 24 June 1907 and Hauptmann der Reserve on 22 May 1913. He wasn't an officer in 1897, so I'm not sure that is a Centenary Medal. Dr. Georg Tasche, who I assume was his brother, was commissioned a Leutnant der Reserve in IR 107 on 27 July 1900. He is not even in the list of Inaktive Offiziere in the 1914 Saxon rank list, so he must have died or completely left Saxon service. Regards, Dave