Daniel Murphy

Ulsterman, I will not touch the ribbons, would it be OK to clean the crosses to remove the green? and what would be the best way.? I have had this for many years and feel that I must have gotten it at a show. I cannot remember from who or at what show. I have always thought he must have been a well decorated NCO who wore this for many years with pride. I will try to find the documents and post them. Dan Murphy

And the back. I had always liked it, it was just not very visually appealing. Dan Murphy

Rick, Here is the bar. The documents I put away for safekeeping and I cannot put my hands on them right now. This is how I got them, I have never cleaned them. Dan Murphy

And the mark. Please excuse the Ek's stacked up like cordwood in the back of the photos. I had hauled them all out for one of those d*mned annoying (just kidding) Iron Cross surveys the day I got the camera. Dan Murphy

Here is the back. Funny thing is this cross went back and forth between me and my best friend about five or six times over the years. He would always find something I could not live without to trade for it and I would do the same to him. I finally wised up and told him I was keeping it this time. Dan Murphy

Joe, That is the only mark on the back of the cross itself. No Meybauer trademark stamp. Here is my "Spoon Bill" I like this cross so much, I swear these were my first pictures with the digital camera. Please pay no attention to the junk in the background. Dan Murphy

So, I have a question. I have a very ugly, very worn homemade medal bar. The bar includes the 2nd, 3rd and 4th class crosses of the enlisted version of the Order for Bravery. These and his 1912-13 and 1915-18 medals are present. I have the documents for the service medals but no others. 2nd Class is marked 1915 and the others are marked 1879. Is this rare and worth restoring, or just neat but not rare?

Now see, you have to be more careful with your words. When I saw the title to the thread, I thought you had sliced an EK in half to show us some obscure detail. What do I get. Just a picture of some really SUPER Eks. Keep up the good work. Dan Murphy

Oh, yea. Here is where the "938" part comes in, on the cross itself. No sense wasting the better quality silver on what isn't going to be seen anyway. Dan Murphy

And the back with the nut marked "PM" for Paul Meybauer and "800". Dan

Micha, I believe yours to be a Meybauer. Classic Meybauer Pin but perhaps made for sale by another (Bavarian?)retailer and therefore not maker marked. Bavarian makers mostly used "Silber" instead of a purity content mark. I have one exactly like yours. Exactly. So in that vein, how about a 938 and a screwback combined. Here is the front, notice the back plate marked "800". Dan Murphy

Since Wagner and Godet each have several MM's attributed to them, so could Friedlander. I agree that both marks are theirs. My HHOX Knights Cross is marked "FR" as well.

My 2 cents. Since every other imperial maker marked them with letters, my take on the "square" is that it is a stylized "O" or "D". The D is more likely. Dan Murphy

"Fr." has been attributed to Friedlander. Given that there is a connection between Friedlander and Wagner, as in the case of pour le merites made by those firms, the "W" could very well be for Wagner. Update I just checked out the list of EK 2 maker marks and W is attributed to Wagner. My belief is that Friedlander was a company associated with Wagner. Perhaps one firm made the parts and another assembled them or such. I will refer to the PLMs again. Friedlander who had never made them shows up on the scene in 1916 with a government contract making PLMs with a die that is so close to Wagners they are virtually indistinquishable. And this right at the time when more PLMs (and everything else) were being awarded than ever (in WW1). Wagner may have been asked to up the quota and their facility would have been running full steam by this time. They very likely refered the government to Friedlander and produced a die for them to make them. So if there was some sort of problem (fire, etc. ) that put one company out of production for a time or lack of manufacturing capacity, the other company would help out the first within it's ability. Parts made by one firm might be finished by the other and returned to fill the contract. The ring may have been stamped once when made by one company, and stamped again when the cross was finished by the other. Remember these companies are under contract with the goverment to supply so many EK 2's a month. If you did not meet your quota you were fined, the goverment did not care if you had a fire, they only knew that you could not meet your contract. Worst case scenario is the contract would be cancelled by the government since you failed to meet it. In business this is very bad, fail to meet your government contract and good luck getting any more (lucrative) government contracts. For a maker of military medals and badges this would be disastrous. You would do whatever is neccesary to meet the contract. Dan Murphy

My guess is that it is the first General Honor Decoration seen with a non-combattant ribbon. I know I have never seen one. Plus all the other stuff everybody else said too. Super bar, you do have a knack for finding them. Dan Murphy

Here is one from my files. An 1870 Grand Cross that was posted on another forum. This was said to have been made around 1900 or later. Since we are only interested in pursuing knowledge here, I hope the member does not mind. Dan Murphy

Oh the Shame! Poor little innocent thread, and I killed it. It was a good thread, with pretty pictures of spikey things and now it is DEAD. I shall never forgive myself. Dan Murphy

All, Thanks for all of your help. I thought I had really found a winner. My HHOX IS bronze gilt, not gold. Oh well, something learned and nothing lost. Dan Murphy

The design of the eagle looks good. I have to say, and I hate to say this, but there does appear to be a clear outline visible around some parts of the eagle. This could be a very carefully painted clearcoat to protect the painted design, but it looks like a decal. If you had not mentioned it, I would have never seen it. Dan Murphy

Here is the back, there is a scratchmarked "U" on the pin.

And last but not least, my post 1838 made 1813 EK 1 pinback mini.

Here is a silver 1870 mini. The bottom ribbon has been folded over to make it fit. Dan Murphy

Here is the reverse.

Here is a better quality one. The cross is silver. The button is unmarked. Dan Murphy

But this makes up for it. Front detail is not what you would expect from this maker, but then again this is only about a 9mm cross.