Streptile

Great photo! Here is another one, a later model (until 1918) with swords -- in fact the same type Heye wears, and the same type Markus shows.

Great ones Markus. Thank you for adding them here. I really love the late, attributed example.

Hi Jani, The 1870 EK2 is a replacement piece from the late 19th or early 20th C., possibly made by S&L.

It's a fake piece.

Please show your RAOX pieces, gentlemen

Thanks Chris. Consider that each of the four sword elements (two blades and two grip sections) is hollow -- made of two halves stamped from real gold and finely soldered together -- then screwed into the body of the cross. What workmanship. Here is a visible seam on the tip of one of the blades.

Thanks Alex. I've started a new thread to show our RAOXs, so we can get back to discussing Pierce's piece in this thread Click here.

Hi guys, I thought it would be nice to start a thread where we can all show our Red Eagle Orders with Swords. Any type, and class, any period or condition -- even photos of the award in-wear. I'll start it off with this one, recently shown in another thread. Unmarked example from the 1870 period.

Thank you

Hi Daniel, Nice to see you here. Yes, the Wagner is a gold piece (also the Godet ).

Great document Chris. Here are two of mine -- Wagner (first photo) and Godet.

The core is the typical KMST type. I wonder if that could be a clue?

Congrats. Very handsome original piece. I think it might be from Liverpool? Here is mine.

These are not "Deschler pins." They were used by many makers on many different awards, some even marked. Assigning a maker based on the pin is not possible unless other factors confirm it. The crosses (I think) you refer to were made by Wilhelm Deumer.

Now for sale: http://www.emedals.com/collectors-gallery/germany/third-reich-army-awards/groups-to-individual-recipients/a-comprehensive-group-to-oberfeldwebel-schmid-g8704?vmcchk=1

Wonder if it will be available at the SOS. Anyone know?

I agree. Also came with swastika core in a Schinkel version.

I've seen a handful like the one Alex posted over the years.

Hmm... I'm trying not to look at my files. Zimmermann?

Prinzen... Meybauer?

I think Alex's is not a repair, and mine is. Just an opinion.

I suppose that's all possible in theory, but that is an awful lot of assumption and speculation Also, the crosses themselves don't support the theory. Late war hardware on a cast core cross? Can't think of an example. As for the crown you showed, it's such a common type, and used on so many, many early unmarked crosses, that I honestly couldn't begin to guess. With a crown like that, what we're really being asked to guess about is the frame -- same as the one just before. As I said, I think most of the easy ones are done (although I can think of a handful more).

Thank you for your clarification Sascha. I guess the thing to do now is to compare the actual crosses, as someone suggested upthread -- frames, cores, hardware. Honestly I've never taken the time to do so. I would say if we can find both marks on the same type of crosses, we've discovered some evidence.

See, that one will be practically impossible; my guess is that at least 20 makers used this core (most common: KO). Most of the easy ones are gone...

You are sort of right. Cores were only cast (poured) in the early years of the war. It is my opinion that cast iron cores were made by foundries and bought by jewelers to make Iron Crosses. Anyway, this was how it was done in 1813 and 1870 and core-sharing was so epidemic that I'm quite sure it was done the same way in 1914-19??. Later in WWI, when everyone switched to painted stamped steel cores, my opinion is that more and more jewelers manufactured their own cores. Basically the same machinery that stamped frames could be used to make cores, so why not? A few makers maintained the same designs from the cast to the stamped cores (Godet is one but there are others). For this and a few other reasons, I believe Godet may have had the facilities for casting cores as well as a press for stamping them.