peter monahan

Heaven forfend that I create controversy among historians! That way madness lies. Or healthy academic debate. Pick one. And I plead vey guilty to being an arm chair historian, though IMHO, we of Her Majesty's Chairborne Brigade do get to the more interesting minutia of history from time to time.

carried up the sleeve, i THINK.

'Skull knockers' or 'Head knockers' and, I believe, perhaps first carried by both police and civilian 'volunteers' during the Emancipation Riots of the 1830s.

On a completely different topic, I am intrigued by several of the slugs pictured above which look, to me at least, as if they may have a line cut across the nose. I recall reading many years ago, when I was the proud possessor of a Martini Henry rifle that the British troops in India were not impressed with the stopping power of the long slugs when used on 'Ghazi fanatics' and in some cases 'improved' them by cutting a cross in the top to make dum-dums. Is there any evidence of this here or is my imagination running away with me?

I am in very aware of both the importance and limitations of oral history, as it figures prominently in current historiography here in North America when looking at anything to do with First Nations. The obvious utility cannot be ignored, especially when it pertains to events or data for which no 'European' records exist, but oral historians are as prone to political agendas, cultural bias and just plain error as are those who write things down. It can become especially problematic when there is a prize at stack - be that political legitimacy, cultural renewal or, worst of all, property. That's why agrarian societies all developed writing! When your great grandfer and my great granfer both claim the same piece of land, clearly somebodies 'memory' or 'oral tradition' is mistaken. Or, as my first historiography prof. used to say, "The first question to ask of any source is 'Why is this person lying to me?'". I know little about the current state of Zulu historiography but can easily imagine the urge to minimize the casualties at what the British saw as a gallant defence and the Zulus presumably hold to be an embarrassment. The big fuss in the UK papers at the moment is around the 200th anniversary re-enactment of the Battle of Waterloo. Having passed over an American to portray Napoleon - hardly a surprise - the organizers chose Frank Samson, a French lawyer, who was quoted as calling Napoleon a political genius who 'all but won' the battle and describes wellington as an ugly man who 'no one has heard of.' I shrug, but clearly the marketing is all about a French triumph! And I believe that when two fleets "re-fought" Trafalgar a few years ago they were labelled 'Red Fleet and 'Blue Fleet" as perhaps being not quite so embarrassing for the losers. What can one do but laugh?

John - a fascinating group indeed. Sorry we haven't been more use on the main question - where to get ribbons, but thank you for taking the time to post the photo. And good luck on the hunt! pwerhaps othe members will ave ideas.

The badge described sounds like a cavalry badge, but I'm away from my books today. Lots of those feature crossed swords. He also appears to be wearing the India General Service Medal ribbon - leftmost on his chest - a green ribbon with two dark blue stripes, along with two others I can't identify. The breast pocket badge may be a unit badge, worn in the wrong spot or something else I'm not familiar with. Enquiries continue. A better photograph would be very helpful.

Several months ago I literally stumbled on a WWII German wicker box with space for 6 shells inside. It had all the original painted markings on it and even very thin wooden liners in 3 or 4 of the 6 compartments inside. I believe it was for morttar shells - does 80mm sound right? In the corner of a garage which someone uses as a sort of antique shop and in 'as new' condition as far as I could see. Somebody obviously thought it worth hauling across the Atlantic to Canada after the war, but I'm not sure why. Interesting but not what I would have grabbed as a souvenir! Or maybe he/she just wanted a way to pack wine bottles!

That would make sense, Chris. The National Museum of Iraq was pretty comprehensively looted during the late unpleasantness and much of the stuff would have been Babylonian, Sumerian and so on. Lots of 'pottery' and such like and, as far as I know, not much has been recovered, though an occasional piece surfaces, usually in pretty suspicious circumstances. "I got it from a guy who bought it in a pub and...'

If it is in fact a later piece, the blurry image might disguise that while still tempting someone to take a chance on buying it. But then, i'm a cynic about ebay!

Can't say the combination of ribbon colours is quite my cup of tea, but the medals themselves are quite attractive. What sort of service - Army then Police? - would a man need to qualify for the four together?

Medal goddess, Megan? You know I'm lousy with titles and formalities. It's part of my charm. But I do apologize if I've slighted you. I grovel obsequiously in the direction of England, madam!

Sounds like an interesting group, John. Would you care to share it with the group? Ideally, a photo and description of how you came by it. I'm afraid I have no sources to suggest - the printed ribbons I'm familiar with are Russian or, in a very few cases, form the Middle East. Perhaps a good printer could suggest a solution to your dilemna. The other possibility, and it is just that, is the Orders and medals Society of America. I was a member decades ago and believe that, then at least, they had a 'ribbon bank' to which members deposited hard to find medal ribbons. Perhaps that still exists and might have what you need or be able to steer you to sources. Megan, our medal maven, may also have suggestions. I haven't seen you post before, so if you are a new member, welcome to our group! Peter

Thank you, John. Good to know that someone is going the extra mile to make the right stuff! I occasionally patronize Wydean Weaving, who have been making regimental lace and such for more than a century and its always good to know that not everything has been driven out of the market by the 'almost as good' offshore stuff. For some things there is no substitute!

Thanks, but yours works fine.

I don't think the right facing thing is just you, mate. I've read something about left and right as it applies to action on stages and movie screens and why the 'good guys' or stronger characters come on from one side and not the other, but b*****ed if I can remember any details at the end of a long day. But its one o' them psycho-mo-logical thingies, based on how the brain processes information, I think. Maybe it will come to me in a dream and I can post it tomorrow. Or not.

Yes, I expect that would quite ruin one's day, were one to be on the receiving end!

Late to the fair here, but one of the things which shows up very commonly in regimental and other histories of WWI Canadians are photos of the various 'troopers' which took the boys over and brought them home. A half dozen names come to mind at once, so I suspect the total is several dozen, most of which survived the war and whose photos are probably easy enough to find, but I wonder how hard it would be to find a post card for each. I actually snaffled an egg cup out of a junk pile which was silver plated and named to a royal Mail ship which did troop carrying in WWII and if one were interested I suspect such souvenirs are not uncommon and probably not at all expensive, though of course the squaddies would not have had access to such swank kit during their voyages!

Nice idea! Along the lines of 'honourable enemies', perhaps?

Thank you, Aubagne, for providing that answer.

"It lacks representation of his British Imperial Order ribbons as well as his other Indian Princely State, Iraqi, Lebanese, Egyptian, Italian, and additional foreign decoration ribbons." Clearly the Nawab needed a larger chest!

Shouldn't like to be capture carrying one, though. I imagine the German view of the 'fun' was rather different!

Dan You will need to be more specific in your request. In the Napoleonic period there were a number of drill manuals for both line and light infantry, and in 1807 one was finally adopted as the 'official' version. However, especially among volunteer units, others continued to be used and in some regiments there were undoubtedly local interpretations of some movements. For Lights, there was A practical guide for the light infantry officer by Thomas Henry Cooper, published in 1806. I'm not certain when and if the 'Shorncliffe method' was superceded by a later model, as lights tended to fade away as distinct bodies, thought retaining the title, when the rifle became standard issue in the mid 19th century. Here is a link to Cooper's book, however, for the Napoleonic period light drill: http://books.google.ca/books?id=AgcHAAAAQAAJ&printsec=titlepage&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false Peter

Would it be cynical to suggest that BOTH reasons may have been involved. "There may be a problem with safety with the new spikes sir. Men and horses may be in danger." "Lovely!, that means we can advance a sensible practical reason for wanting a regimental distinction and not just sound like whiners, like the Guards, who have to be different, 'just because'." I mean, I know horses aren't very bright, but surely they are clever enough not to impale their eyeballs on sticks, bamboo shoots or metal spikes? Ditto gunners, I hope.

Nice one!