I looked through the entire DOA and only 1 prospect

[Paul C]

I have had extra time on my hands so I decided to look through the entire 1908/09 DOA to find a match for my PC3 medal bar which is posted below, the back is gray. I find only 1 prospect who had any reserve service, a Dr. Wilhelm Wolff. His DOA entry is below. He found him in 1895 with the PC3 but can not find him after. I believe his DOA entry lists him as being retired. My question is...is there anyway to find out if he received the WF3a as a civilian?

[webr55]

Ain't it horrible? I feel with you.

But I think your candidate looks good. How many can there have been with an LD1 AND the Portuguese one? And he wasn't too old to get all those WW1 decorations.

I find three possible candidates for a Dr. Wolff, though the last two are rather improbable.

Wilhelm Wolff, Dr. med. from the University of Berlin on 31.07.1877, Dissertation "Über den Zusammenhang des Muskels mit der Sehne". Most probably him.

Wilhelm Wolff, Dr. med. from the University of Würzburg in 1889. This one was "from Kitzingen". I'm not sure whether this was his birthplace or residence, but either way, he looks rather Bavarian.

Wilhelm Theodor Wolff, Dr. med. from the University of Halle in 1875. This one is probably too early (at 23), but in those days, it might have been possible.

Chris

Edited April 18, 2020 by webr55

[Paul C]

I looked in the ranklists and I can find a Dr. Wolff with PC3 in Landwehr District I Berlin in 1890, 1892, and 1895. I don't find him in 1889. I check my 1897 and do not find him. I wonder what happen.

[Glenn J]

Paul,

if you check your 1897 carefully and look at page 689 at the small print, you will find Stabsarzt Dr. Wolff under the Abschied bewilligt (granted permission to retire) section meaning he left Landwehr service sometime between May 96 and May 97.

Regards

Glenn

[Paul C]

I see it and thanks. So he must have retired but stayed on the rolls and accumlated time for the service medals.

[saschaw]

I am aware this is a thirteen year old thread, but you're probably getting used to this doesn't mind to me... on my journey through the Prussian 1909 rank list, in my desperate but semi-successful search for the wearer of one of Claudio's mystery medal bars, I found someone who might be a better fit for this group than Dr. Wolff:

A Rittmeister der Reserve Freiherr von Bodelschwingh-Plettenberg from Leib-Garde-Husaren-Regiment is listed with an LD1 and both WF3a and PC3! Only problem: he has an additional KO4. He's also listed with an additional JohR, but that's a neck decoration, and an JK5. Wearing awards granted from now-enemies wasn't too popular in the war, so its lack doesn't mean much. I wonder if he might have made it from KO4 in 1909 to a later KO2?

Not saying it's not Wolff's, and not saying has to be Bodelschwingh-Plettenberg's. But a solid proof for only two out of seven, and an initial research based on the Deutscher Ordens-Almanach, the most incomplete and unreliable source we have, doesn't seem too convincing to me. Maybe someone who has more sources and skills than I wants to take a closer look...

Edited April 13, 2020 by saschaw

[laurentius]

1 hour ago, saschaw said:

I wonder if he might have made it from KO4 in 1909 to a later KO2?

 

I think going from a KO4 to a KO2 in 5 years time as a Hauptmann, certainly without getting an RAO4 is a bit of a stretch

[saschaw]

I tried to find something more on him... and now that's a bit confusing: mentioned Freiherr Bodelschwingh-Plettenberg became Graf von Plettenberg-Heeren in 1913. Besides being a RM dR in the Leib-Garde-Husaren-Regiment, he was also a chamberlain and a member of the House of Lords! Definitely noone to end with the absolutely lowest Prussian order, I'd assume?! German Wikipedia, besides all that information, shows also a nice picture of him, still with KO4 and an additional RAO4, but it's undated, so I don't know if there were some major changes to his Prussian orders...

[Bayern]

The most notable von Plettenberg of WW1 was Karl Freiherr von Plettenberg 1852 1938 Commander of the Garde Korps at the outbreak of the War

[Dave Danner]

Friedrich Graf v. Plettenberg-Heeren still had the RAO4 and KO4 in the 1918 Handbuch über den preußischen Hof und Staat. I can't see a bump all the way to an RAO2 and KO2 in the time left.

Also, Portugal was also an enemy state, so if he removed the Italian order for that reason, it would make sense that he would remove the Portuguese as well. 

That said, he is a close match otherwise. He received the Lippe-Detmold Kriegsverdienstkreuz on 29 January 1918 as a Major der Reserve a.D. and Adjutant to the commander of the Oberkommando in den Marken. In his receipt for the cross dated 2. February 1918, he listed the following decorations: RAO4, KO4, EK2, JohR, LD1, BayKLK, BrH2b, WF3a, BMO3, JK5, PC3.  Later in 1918, he also received the Austro-Hungarian Militärverdienstkreuz 3. Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration 3. Klasse. The Johanniterorden and the Bulgarian and Braunschweig orders were neck decorations. 

So this bar is close on the wartime decorations with the EK2 and the Bavarian and Lippe awards, but differs on the Austrian and Hamburg awards. And it is close on the peacetime awards with the LD1, WF3a and PC3, but differs on the lack of the two Prussian orders and on the Italian order. So I would say close, but no cigar at this point.

Edit to add: I have only managed to get through about 40% of the LK receipts in Detmold, and don't have a match yet. The receipts usually include other awards, so I believe a match will be found eventually.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Dave Danner

[Komtur]

2 hours ago, saschaw said:

... shows also a nice picture of him, still with KO4 and an additional RAO4, but it's undated, so I don't know if there were some major changes to his Prussian orders...

I am afraid not. Prussian Court and State 1918: