Luftwaffe LW Jackets I - Summer jacket, the "Great White"

[GdC26]

Would this be the color pic you gentlemen had in mind? It hails from the Gmeline book on hte Luftwaffe.

Regards,

Sandro

[GdC26]

Zoom 1

[GdC26]

Zoom 2.

Edited February 25, 2007 by GdC26

[GdC26]

Zoom 3, close up of the collar.

[mjfur]

Here are some more with the fur/velvet collar.

[mjfur]

Thick collar.

[J Temple-West]

These two pictures of M?lders appeared in my "Inbox" this morning... Thanks to the sender!

[J Temple-West]

+1

[François SAEZ]

These two pictures of M?lders appeared in my "Inbox" this morning... Thanks to the sender!

Bien !

RK award ceremony of

Oberleutnant

Schmidt, Erich

* 17.11.1914 Neuhaus am Rennweg, Krs. S?nneberg/Th?ringen

+ 31.08.1941 b. Dubrio/Ru?land

Ritterkreuz am: 23.07.1941

als: Leutnant

Funktion: Flugzeugf?hrer III./JG 53

[François SAEZ]

One more pic of Schmidt, Erich

but back to the point raised by Sandro and about the concensus on the excavated jacket, what do we have?

[Jos Le Conté]

IMO we have 2 different types of white jackets and maybe a third one with the fur collar versus the excavated jacket which apparentely is and from the pics appears to be a "bleached" blue Summer jacket...

So, still no real evidence of a Great White sofar...

Jos.

[Bill Bourque]

Hello all, I think the answer lies in a "hands on" exam of the jacket. One would only need to find a shred of floopy wool collar where it is sown to the jacket body. We all are aware of the tight collar stitching present on all combat uniforms. The body of the jacket is intact. One could search for any stamp or label in those areas. If it were possible and the aircraft/cockpit from which the pilot was exhumed is more or less intact, search for one of the two white glasiene sleeve buttons that became detached by jacket decomposition. I have sent off an email to the fellow that provided the pics. We might be able to arrange an exam by one of our Luft. Experten in Europe. Many excellent photos in this thread. Best, Bill Bourque

Edited February 28, 2007 by Bill Bourque

[Bill Bourque]

Hello I have an advantage with higher pixel photos. What do you think of these pics of the relic jackets collar area? In the top of the collar is a blueish wooly mass. Slightly suggestive. Best, Bill

[Bill Bourque]

Pic. Bill

[mjfur]

Here are some pics of very light colored typical summer weight jackets. If you compare the color tones of the caps, waistband & breast eagle the jacket is very light.

Regards,

Mike

Edited February 28, 2007 by mjfur

[mjfur]

pic 2

[GdC26]

Hi Bill,

Can you post close ups of the liner, please? I may be misinterpreting the pics, but it looks to me like the jacket is lined with a very light and lightweigth material, perhaps parachute silk or something similar.

Do you or the owner have any info concerning labels, stamps, zipper makermmarks, maker marks on press studs etc? And does either of you have any pics showing areas that may have been unexposed to the elements, like the inside of a pocket?

Thanks and regards,

Sandro

[Bill Bourque]

Hello Sandro, sorry but these are the only pics I have. Im trying to get more. Great pics Mike F. Were did you find them? Best, Bill

[GdC26]

Another thing that has been puzzeling me: white thread to hold the O2 mask strap. I have checked some of the pics in this post, but none of them exhibit this trait.

[Bob Lyons]

Fascinating thread, and thanks to all for the great photos, any idea of a time period for the first appearance of them??

From Volume 2 of the JG 53 book, page 235, Fw Oechler....

[Bob Lyons]

JG 53 book again, also volume 2, page 225, showing a group of officers in a conference, III/JG 53...

[Bob Lyons]

Eric Mombeek's book Defending the Reich, Oct 1942, pilots of 12 Staffel....

[Bob Lyons]

and 'Wutz' Galland from the Ryton Luftwaffe diary volume 1, page 119.

Bob

[Bill Bourque]

Hello all, Ive been in contact with the provider of the relic jacket pictures, his name is Roger. He will be visiting the owners in the upcoming weeks and he will attempt to get more detailed photos of the jacket and collar areas. Best , Bill

[Roger S]

Yesterday I revisited the museum and inspected the jacket. On the entire jacket, there is not a single blue spot. The 3 layers of the jacket, the outside, inside and inner liner are all white. The inside of the pocket is white, and the letter the pilot had inside this pocket, aswell as his Soldbuch, are preserved and clearly readable. The jacket, and the pilot, were preserved by the toral lack of oxygen in the soil that sealed them off from the outside for 55 years. When found, the pilot was still preserved inside the jacket. Not a nice sight, and it was even more grim to remove the body from the jacket. The stitching , apart from the grey thread used on the eagle, is done in white. All leather on the jacket is brown. The inside of the jacket, being in contact with a decaying body for so long, is badly stained and not very inviting for a close inspection. However, I inspected the collar and there is grey wool at severall places. The quality of the jacket is very high, and looks much better than many of the examples shown in the pics which looks a bit cheapish. I have been with many aircraft from WW2 that were salvaged, and I have seen many uniforms, either Britisch, American or German, which were underground for decades. Sometimes they rotted, got darker or just fell apart. However the German uniforms seem to survive better than the Allied ones. But I have never seen a dark blue jacket that faded to a very white colour, all over without a single blue trace left. So, I m clear , as were 2 other Luftwaffe collectors who were with me and inspected the jacket, that is was, and still is a white one. The pilot who wore it for 55 years died in 1943. So the jacket is an early one.

Best wishes, Roger