derGeneral Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 (edited) Today I've got this really nice CDV of a bavarian officer. He wears at the neck : Bayern, Orden vom Hl. Michael 2.KlassePreussen, Kronenorden 2.KlasseSchweden, Schwertordenan at the bar : Bayern, Milit?rverdienstorden Ritterkreuz 2.Klasse mit SchwerterBayern, Milit?rverdienstorden Ritterkreuz 1.Klasse ohne SchwerterBayern, Verdienstorden der bayrischen Krone, RitterkreuzPreussen, Eisernes Kreuz 2.Klasse 1870Preussen, Kriegsdenkm?nze f?r K?mpfer Bayern, Armeedenkzeichen Bayern, Dienstauszeichnung II.Klasse f?r 24 Jahre Is the ID of this guy possible ? Edited March 15, 2007 by derGeneral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derGeneral Posted March 15, 2007 Author Share Posted March 15, 2007 some more pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 WONDERFUL portrait of an Oberst taken between 1891-1895 but you need a rank List from that period-- before anything I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 (edited) On the bar, the first one must be the verdienstKREUZ and the second one the verdienstORDERNot both the verdienst order, the difference is clearly to be seen between the crosses, the verdienst order had kind of flames whereas the verdienst kreuze had just a maltese cross.Kind regards,Jacky Edited March 15, 2007 by Jacky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Cole Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 Jacky, I believe they are both Verdienst Orders. CHeck Medalnets, rotating avartar for an example.Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dwyer Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 WONDERFUL portrait of an Oberst taken between 1891-1895 but you need a rank List from that period-- before anything I have. Even if he had no medals.......................how about that mustache! Man I wish I could get mine to grow like that!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted March 15, 2007 Share Posted March 15, 2007 Der General is correct. Before 1905, the lower two classes were the Ritterkreuz 1. Klasse and the Ritterkreuz 2. Klasse. The Ritterkreuz 2. Klasse did not have flames between the arms. Swords were not authorized until 1891. In 1905, the orders was revised and the Ritterkreuz 1. Klasse and Ritterkreuz 2. Klasse became the III. and IV. Klassen, respectively. Flames were added to the IV. Klasse then. Clasps were authorized for the Kriegsdenkm?nze 1870/71 in 1895. Their lack on the bar here, but the presence of swords on the MVO, is presumably how Rick got the 1891-1895 date range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Cole Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I stand corrected. Always good to learn new stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 I stand corrected. Always good to learn new stuff.No, you were right, they were both classes of the order. The MVO is just confusing because of the pre-1905 lack of flames on the RK2, which became the 4th Class. So on the black and white photo, Jacky missed that the cross was enameled and wasn't an MVK. Simple mistake, no biggy. If Rick had bothered to explain why he deduced the picture was taken between 1891 and 1895, then maybe the confusion would have been avoided, but I guess magicians don't like to reveal how they perform their magic I'm not a magician, just a scholar. My goal is just to get the knowledge out there. I have spent a lot of time and effort over the past month updating my website, adding about 300 more images and a lot of text, including more descriptions of the various decorations. The Bavarian MVO is actually one that is giving me trouble as I can't figure our exactly what is the difference between the Grand Cross and the 1st Class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 ah,Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!Thanks for correcting me.Kind regards,Jacky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 So on the black and white photo, Jacky missed that the cross was enameled and wasn't an MVK. Simple mistake, no biggy.Now this is just almost(!) right. The old MVKs (1st modell) were enameled too, but made of Silver, whereas the older MVOs are always real gold. Not possible to see on the picture, but as we know he's an officer and no NCO, it leaves just that, what derGeneral wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted March 16, 2007 Share Posted March 16, 2007 Now this is just almost(!) right. The old MVKs (1st modell) were enameled too, but made of Silver, whereas the older MVOs are always real gold. Not possible to see on the picture, but as we know he's an officer and no NCO, it leaves just that, what derGeneral wrote. See, I told you I need more information on the MVO, especially the pre-World War I evolution of the various classes. Thanks for the additional information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwmosher Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 To further help identify your man, he was a staff grade officer (Major thru Oberst since I can't see the pips on his banjos) from either the Bavarian 1. Feldartillerie-Regt. or Bavarian 7. Feldartillerie-Regt. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Looks to me to be the cypher of the 1.b.FAR and I see two pips on the right (his left) epaulette.Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Gentlemen,As an aside I thought that some of you might appreciate a closer view of a Swedish Sword Order commander?s cross such as our subject is wearing. While being, in my opinion, one of the most beautiful orders, its construction is certainly among the most complex.Through the kindness of a fellow collector, I was able to borrow his example for the picture below.Best wishes,Wild Card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 (edited) Got him! This is Theodor von Bomhard (1841 - after 1911) Born Wunsiedel 12.1.1841 (Bavarian) Unterlieutenant 16.5.1859 ... Oberst 11.12.1888 Generalmajor 12.6.1893 char. GenLt zD 25.12.1897 char. Gen der Artillerie zD 3.3.1911 He was Commander of FAR1 in 1891, Sektionschef Field Artillery Inspection in 1893, Commander of 2nd Field Artillery Brigade in 1895. His awards per 1895 are BMV4X, BMV3X, Bavarian Crown Order Knight, St. Michael Commander 2nd, EK2, KO2, KDM70, Bavar 1866 cross, DA 2nd, Swedish Sword Order Commander 2nd and ÖFJ1 (Grand Cross). The two last ones do not show up in the 1891 RL. So this photo must have been taken sometime between 1891 and 1893 (promotion to Generalmajor), and before he got the ÖFJ1. Trivia: He was the grandfather of SS-Gruppenführer Adolf von Bomhard. Edited November 13, 2017 by webr55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derGeneral Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share Posted March 28, 2007 Thank you very much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Good job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernd D Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Got him!This is Theodor von Bomhard (1841 - after 1911)Born Wunsiedel 12.1.1841(Bavarian) Unterlieutenant 16.5.1859...Oberst 11.12.1888Generalmajor 12.6.1893char. GenLt zD 25.12.1897char. Gen der Artillerie zD 3.3.1911He was Commander of FAR1 in 1891, Sektionschef Field Artillery Inspection in 1893, Commander of 2nd Field Artillery Brigade in 1895.His awards per 1895 are BMV4X, BMV3X, Bavarian Crown Order Knight, St. Michael Commander 2nd, EK2, KO2, KDM70, Bavar 1866 cross, DA 2nd, Swedish Sword Order Commander 2nd and ?FJ1 (Grand Cross). The two last ones do not show up in the 1891 RL. So this photo must have been taken sometime between 1891 and 1893 (promotion to Generalmajor), and before he got the ?FJ1.Trivia: He was the grandfather of SS-Gruppenf?hrer Adolf von Bomhard.He received the BMV3bx (RK2 war decoration) 01.11.1870 as Oberleutnant in the 1. AR.BMV3a (RK1) 23.12.1883 as Major in the 4. ARBMV2 (Comthur) 27.12.1894 as GeneralmajorStar for BMV2 - 23.12.1898 GeneralleutnantBMV1 (Grandcross) 24.10.1901Nice collection of BMV?s. Through all classes at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 (edited) Now here's something interesting: Theodor von Bomhard died after 1911, indeed, but quite a number of years after. By pure chance, when looking through the Heer 1944 ranklist, I noticed that he is still (!! ) listed among the Generals zV! By far the oldest one of course, he still had the right to wear the uniform of Art Reg 7. Wonder if he could at 103! Edited February 8, 2008 by webr55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernd D Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Now here's something interesting: Theodor von Bomhard died after 1911, indeed, but quite a number of years after. By pure chance, when looking through the Heer 1944 ranklist, I noticed that he is still (!! ) listed among the Generals zV! By far the oldest one of course, he still had the right to wear the uniform of Art Reg 7. Wonder if he could at 103!I found in Feldgrau.net this sentence"On 6 April 1939 General der Artillerie a. D. [bayern] Theodor von Bomhard celebrated the 80th anniversary of his enlistment." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I found in Feldgrau.net this sentence"On 6 April 1939 General der Artillerie a. D. [bayern] Theodor von Bomhard celebrated the 80th anniversary of his enlistment."That should be a unique distinction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 To complete this topic: Theodor von Bomhard died on 17.03.1945 at the age of 104, in Prien. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christerd Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 :jumping: Wow , in service 1859 ! and died 1945 ...... Must been one of the longest military services I ever heard of. He would have chocked the Russian troops in March 1945 if he had showed up in uniform Christer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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