Dave Suter Posted April 17, 2007 Author Share Posted April 17, 2007 (edited) The Jaeger Officer tunic and overcoat display is really something. Did these two items come from the same soldier?Paul,The Jager outfit did all come together. The materials and construction all match exactly. Edited April 18, 2007 by Dave Suter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Paul,The Jager outfit did all came together. The materials and construction all match exactly.It is a beautiful set! I look forward to seeing more of your treasures, time permitting!Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Suter Posted April 18, 2007 Author Share Posted April 18, 2007 As promised, here's the panzer LTC piped tunic. As I said earlier, all the medals except for the fake Spanish Cross are original to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Suter Posted April 18, 2007 Author Share Posted April 18, 2007 Another view off to the side just a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Another great grouping! What is the buttonhole award? Bavarian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Suter Posted April 18, 2007 Author Share Posted April 18, 2007 A shot of the ribbon bar. It is sewn to the tunic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 The long ribbon bar(Blue and red with star) looks Italian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Suter Posted April 18, 2007 Author Share Posted April 18, 2007 (edited) The button-hole ribbon is for the Knight's Cross of the Military Maximilian-Joseph Order, the highest WWI Bavarian award. As for the ribbon bar, some of the awards are Italian and Spanish. Some time ago Ricky helped me and was able to identify every one of them. Unfortunately, that info was either saved on my old Mac (which I've gotten rid of), or is in a drawer somewhere. Ricky, would you be so kind as to help with this again? Edited April 18, 2007 by Dave Suter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Suter Posted April 18, 2007 Author Share Posted April 18, 2007 This is (obviously) the tailor's label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Suter Posted April 18, 2007 Author Share Posted April 18, 2007 And the label with the owner's name. It's Schwenger as I recall. As I said, Rick had it all figured out based on the awards. (Would you do it all again if I can't find it?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 I remember that old case from WAF, 5 years ago. Schwengers seems to be the name, and the candidate is a pre-1914 cavalry Lt dR who got called back in the 1930s. The MMJ ribbon cannot be original to the tunic, the ribbon bar MIGHT be. In any case, it is a great bar.As Rick does not like linking to other sites, I have copied his passages from 2002:"The only Imperial regular officer named Schwengers was a Saxon killed in 1914. There were two--significantly, with RHENISH ties-- pre-1914 Reserve officers named Schwengers-- a Lt dR of some seniority resident in Duisburg 1914 in Feldart Rgt 7, and a 1912/13 Lt dR resident in Schwarzburg May '13 and Eisenach May '14 in Kurassier Rgt 8: either of whom COULD have "gone Panzer" branch.""Major (E) 1.9.38 #15 Schwengers was on staff of Wehr Ersatz Inspektion Innsbruck then. He does not appear in the 1944 Seniority List, so presumably had been killed or died in between. Given normal promotion, probably Oberstleutnant in 1942. I don't find him on the German Cross list, so can't imagine what else that set of loops could be for on his right side. If NOT a Spanish Cross, then some strange "foreign" award. He had to have been one of the pre-WW1 RESERVE Rhineland Schwengers mentioned above, who went "full time" as a Supplementary (E) officer in the 1930s. I'd suspect the 1913/14 cavalry Lt dR one, since my Mecklenburger dR officer was of that same age/seniority and got pulled back in, ending up as an Oberstleutnant too." "I'd say that the super ribbon bar does NOT belong on this tunic! I can't imagine a 50 something retread Major having racked up ALL THAT STUFF and nobody ever heard of him! Gotta seek out the Big Heroes of the Legion Condor!""I've been through the available WW1 award rolls that I have and don't find anything WW1 for a Schwengers from Baden, Bavaria, Lippe-Detmold, the Prussian Hohenzollern House OrderX, Saxony, Saxe-Altenburg, or Waldeck. Since if he were the younger ca 1912/13 reserve Schwengers, that would place him born about 1885/6, that would have made him a damn old Hauptmann to be zipping around single handedly winning the war for Franco! Nor was our Mystery Schwengers a young former police officer called into the army-- there was but the single Major (E) in 1939." "If he was, as I think fairly certain, one of those two men, if he had pinback ribbon bar loops as long as that monster spread, that would seem to reinforce that ribbon bar bbeing original to the tunic being possible. (even at the 25mm size each ribbon, I can't imagine a purely "WW1 veteran" combination missing all the stuff I checked for above and didn't find). There is no way the Bavarian Max-Joseph/Bravery Medal ribbon from the buttonhole IS a match, though, and if everything is faded to the same degree, that would just seem to indicate looong storage in sunlight." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Suter Posted April 18, 2007 Author Share Posted April 18, 2007 YAHOO I didn't remember that Rick posted that on the other forum. I thought it was lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 I had company so wasn't online for this. -- thanks! I had saved the scans but not the research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Welcome on bord Dave.Always a pleasure to see your bunker's collection.Best,Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Suter Posted April 21, 2007 Author Share Posted April 21, 2007 Looks like I have a little free time, so I'll add in some more. Unfortunately, in a lot of cases I don't have seperate straight-on shots of the whole uniform - just the tab/board/eagle close-up.This one is for a Corporal in the 19th Infantry Regiment. This is an Ausgehrock f?r Unteroffiziere und Mannschaften (Walking-out Tunic for NCOs and Privates). This was an old style tunic that was a carry-over from the Reichswehr. It differed from the old style service tunic in that it doesn?t have belt hooks and has the dress-type collar tabs. It was allowed to be worn until 31 March 1941. The 19th Infantry Regiment was a part of the 7th Infantry Division. It?s home base was Munich (Wehrkreis VII). Fought in South Poland and against the BEF in Belgium. Fought in central Russia and took part in the Battle of Kursk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Suter Posted April 21, 2007 Author Share Posted April 21, 2007 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Suter Posted April 21, 2007 Author Share Posted April 21, 2007 (edited) Another old style one. For a Lance Corporal who's also an NCO Candidate in the 4th Cavalry Regiment. Notice the sage-green collar & straps, compared to the one above, which is starting to look more like a TR Waffenrock. Edited April 21, 2007 by Dave Suter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Suter Posted April 21, 2007 Author Share Posted April 21, 2007 The rank patch is made of a one-piece woven metallic Weimar-pattern tress. The Weimar-pattern tress was changed a the end of 1934, so the rank is probably Gefreiter, since from 1920-1936 Gefreiter used two chevrons, changing to one in 1936. From 1936 on two chevrons indicated an Obergefreiter.The change in tress pattern also helps date the Infantry tunic above, since it uses the latter pattern tress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Suter Posted April 21, 2007 Author Share Posted April 21, 2007 Only picture of this one I have, so you'll have to take my word for it, but it's a Dienstrock f?r Offiziere, Rock alter Art (Officer's Service Tunic, Old Style) for a Lieutenant Colonel, Recruiting Office, Military District II, Stettin. The wear out period was 31 March 1942. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Suter Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 This tunic is for a Kriegsverwaltungsbeamte '39 - '41 (War Administration Official). In '41 this changed to a Militarverwaltungsbeamte (Military Administration Official). From '39 - '40 the rank was changed to Oberkriegsverwaltungsrat. It changed again to Kriegsverwaltungsoberrat in '40 to '41 and in '41 it was changed again to Militarverwaltungsoberrat. The army rank equivalent is Lieutenant Colonel. Note the Wehrmachtadler device on the shoulder board instead of the HV device. The design of the tabs indicates the Hoherer Dienst (High Grade Career). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Suter Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 This Waffenrock is for a Beamte Oberleutnant (1st Lieutenant). Probably for either an Inspektor of the Mittlerer Nichttechnischer Dienst (Medium Non-technical Career) or, most likely, for an Oberzahlmeister of the Nichttechnischer Heeresverwaltungs Dienst (Non-technical Administrative Service - commonly called the Paymaster Branch). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Suter Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Suter Posted April 23, 2007 Author Share Posted April 23, 2007 Waffenrock for a Pioniere Leutnant (Engineer 2nd Lieutenant). Notice the early eagle on field grey rather than the more common dark green backing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 The 4th cavalry has a certain "class" about it. I am a fan or pre 3rd Reich goodies :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 ...and I am a fan of the Administrative goodies!!! The pre 41 Offiical's uniform is very special!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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