My latest Bavarian M.V.O. Kreuz, I Class with Crown.

[militaria0815]

A real nice case.

Edited August 17, 2007 by militaria0815

[Alex K]

A real nice case.

Hi are saying that the case is the only original piece?

regards

Alex

[militaria0815]

Hi are saying that the case is the only original piece?

regards

Alex

If it was I were absolutely able to express that! Most probably the 1st one you have seen so far.

[medalnet]

I`m sure you mean one third class with crown and swords in silver gilt (beauty)

and one 4th class with crown with front med. made out of gold (also beauty)

A very nice Spange

OK, I went back into the original post and added to the pictures.

[Nick]

My attention has been brought to this thread and I do feel that I need to make comment. A lot of statements have been made by a number of members, some of which purport to have great expertise in this area of collecting, including the knowledge behind the publication of a mystery 'bible' next year. However I cannot help feeling that there has been a lot of deliberate vagueness within this discussion and certainly no openness or transparency surrounding identities or credentials.

Unfortunately as most of us know collecting can be a risky business, with many pitfalls and little scientific fact. We support our own learning based on the on the recognised knowledge and expertise of other collectors, who may have more experience within certain specialised areas. GMIC is about sharing knowledge, experience and information. To say wait for a book publication to support my statements is really not within the spirit of this forum. I have no idea whether any of the medals in this thread are real or fake and to tell you the truth as layman having read this thread I am still no clearer and have not really learnt anything either, which is proving a point.

If medals are fake lets hear WHY YOU think or KNOW they are fake. A detailed analysis goes a long way to establishing some credibility. Of course some of the members hiding behind anonymous user names may already have a lot of credibility and credentials, after all this is a small community and some of you on this thread obviously know each other . So lets not be shy about things, I for one would like to know who is who on this thread and would like to be educated as to why some of the medals on this thread are fake. So lets make this worthwhile put the slanging match aside and get down to serious business.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Just to add some pics from a current Ebay auction...

Sold as a "Spangenst?ck", i.e. a period copy purchased for wearing.

[sammlerchris1]

Just to add some pics from a current Ebay auction...

Sold as a "Spangenst?ck", i.e. a period copy purchased for wearing.

This Cross isn?t a Spangenst?ck at all.

In was made in the 1980?s. Made only for collectors , not for wearing.

Formerly it was a nice MVK 3.Kl. m. Kr. u. Schw. from the manufacturer Weiss & Co, M?nchen.

[Kev in Deva]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...A:IT&ih=009

Seller Blurb: Bayerisches Milit?rVerdienstKreuz 1ter Klasse mit Schwertern und Krone, Zentrum emailliert, Herstellerzeichen D (f?r Deschler, M?nchen) auf der R?ckseite der Schwerter, insgesamt sehr gut erhalten, siehe Bilder!

Kevin in Deva.

[Bernd D]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...A:IT&ih=009

Seller Blurb: Bayerisches Milit?rVerdienstKreuz 1ter Klasse mit Schwertern und Krone, Zentrum emailliert, Herstellerzeichen D (f?r Deschler, M?nchen) auf der R?ckseite der Schwerter, insgesamt sehr gut erhalten, siehe Bilder!

Kevin in Deva.

Deschler never did those!

Bernd

[militaria0815]

Deschler never did those!

Bernd

Again one of the faked crosses.

[saschaw]

Just to keep this actually good and interresting thread "alive" and to show you something really nice, here's my Bavarian MVK/MMC IInd class, IInd modell. Those were awarded from 1905 to 1913. It is maker marked "900 G.H." which stands for silver 900 fine, and the maker Gebr?der Hemmerle in Munich.

PS: This one was bought about two years ago on eBay.com - for about US $30.-

[Bernd D]

Just to keep this actually good and interresting thread "alive" and to show you something really nice, here's my Bavarian MVK/MMC IInd class, IInd modell. Those were awarded from 1905 to 1913. It is maker marked "900 G.H." which stands for silver 900 fine, and the maker Gebr?der Hemmerle in Munich.

PS: This one was bought about two years ago on eBay.com - for about US $30.-

It is hard to see. Is the lion and the L added separately to the plate and is the plate separated from the ring? The medallions must consist out of three separate parts.

Bernd

[saschaw]

It is hard to see. Is the lion and the L added separately to the plate and is the plate separated from the ring? The medallions must consist out of three separate parts.

Yes Bernd, they are. =)

[joemiller]

Saschaw, I have never seen one of those colonial crosses except for the one at the beginning of this thread. Is the key to these the information about the center medallion? You say that the center medallions are three separate pieces? Are there any figures on how many of these were awarded. Since there was one at the beginning of this thread, was that given for the Southwest Africa colonial war? Thanks for all of this information.

[Guest Rick Research]

Microscopic multiple piece centers, finely soldered and difficult to "see" in a scan, but obvious on hand-inspection (they did quality work in those days). I can't get any other view since the awards are tightly sewn down on the medal bar to prevent jingling:

The "L" ciphers and lions remained tiny separate pieces on the Order grades.

[joemiller]

Thanks Rick, now that's what I call real knowledge. This is really helpful, although I'll probably never see one first hand, let alone getting one for $30 on Ebay.

[saschaw]

I know these are faked, but I don't know how good, to be honest. I guess I wouldn't realize a good fake as such, but I showed mine to people that are aware, and I trust their opinion. Better pictures of mine are impossible at the moment, I'm sorry - my scanner went crazy, and I'm not good with a camera ...

This is really helpful, although I'll probably never see one first hand, let alone getting one for $30 on Ebay.

Well, I guess this was a "once in a lifetime" eBay bargain, but I like to mention it anytime, just for those who condamn eBay always. It is not impossible to do really good buys. At least sometimes ...

PS:

I'm still looking for a good(!) MMO 4th class without swords. If someone has one he doesn't need anymore, this nice MMC might leave me ...

[Franken75]

PS:

I'm still looking for a good(!) MMO 4th class without swords. If someone has one he doesn't need anymore, this nice MMC might leave me ...

I hope it might leave only in direction francony, sometime I hope to have something real nice from Baden than I will submit you an Offer that you will not cut off .

[Alex K]

Hi I've seen the attached on a dealers website that I'm interested in for 190GBP, could, in view of the many comments made in this thread, ayone comment on the authenticity?

regards

Alex K

[militaria0815]

Hi I've seen the attached on a dealers website that I'm interested in for 190GBP, could, in view of the many comments made in this thread, ayone comment on the authenticity?

regards

Alex K

One of the many faked items.

[Franken75]

Hi I've seen the attached on a dealers website that I'm interested in for 190GBP, could, in view of the many comments made in this thread, ayone comment on the authenticity?

regards

Alex K

Originally it was a MVK third class with crown and swords made by Weiss & Co. Another destroyed medal.

Regards

[Alex K]

Hi Thanks for that, as you say another destroyed medal, what a pity

regards

Alex

[sammlerchris1]

ayone comment on the authenticity?

Hello,

this is a cross made from Weiss & Co., M?nchen. And this manufacturer never

made one of this class

Best regards,

Chris

[Chris Boonzaier]

Just to keep this actually good and interresting thread "alive" and to show you something really nice, here's my Bavarian MVK/MMC IInd class, IInd modell. Those were awarded from 1905 to 1913. It is maker marked "900 G.H." which stands for silver 900 fine, and the maker Gebr?der Hemmerle in Munich.

PS: This one was bought about two years ago on eBay.com - for about US $30.-

I guess 800 Silver was a bit more expensive than the WW1 Models ;-)

[spolei]

QUOTE(Alex K @ Oct 8 2007, 19:30 ) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ayone comment on the authenticity?

Hello,

this is a cross made from Weiss & Co., M?nchen. And this manufacturer never

made one of this class

Best regards,

Chris

Hello,

that is a very interesting item.

At first, I saw the Weiss swords and thought, Weiss hasn't produced this class with crown.

The cross was made by Hemmerle, the last edition for silver gilt medaillons. You can see the thicker border on the backsite of the lower arm. The first class crown/swords was produced at the beginning of war with the early variants. A silver golden variant isn't known. I think that isn't a fake of the 80's, that could be a postwar production by Hemmerle.

Here a original first class http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/43620-what-do-you-know-about-bavarian-mvks-and-mvos/?p=565525

regards Andreas