A BADen Boy....

[Chris Boonzaier]

Well, I bought this this week (and have another one coming ;-)

[Chris Boonzaier]

front...

[Chris Boonzaier]

Kindly provided by Sascha...

It is a nice award for 3rd Ypres/Flanders/Bloody Paschendaele

The Company was in the line during the Flanders battle from the 08-20th of August 1917. Stapf participated in all the actions including the "Gro?kampftag" on the 16th of August. On this day the company was in action with four medium Minenwerfer. As the British broke into our lines that day the Minenwerfer position had to be abandoned. On the 17th of August the company sent out three patrols to see if the Werfer had fallen into enemy hands. The patrols returned unsuccessfully. At this point Vizefeldwebel (At that time Unteroffizier) Stapf volunteered to find the positions. Although the way was only known by map he succeeded on the afternoon of the 17th of August in finding all four Werfer positions. Its is thnks to Stapf's brave action that the company was able to (in the night of the 17th-18th of August) recuperate two of the Werfer and the barrel and Lafette of a third. Stapf led the company to the positions. A Fourth Werfer had been totally destroyed. Stapf has been recommended for the award one time before.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Anyone got a spare baden ribbon ;-)

[Paul C]

actually I do. send me a pm with your email and I send a pic. I have a three place bar with the wide hook for this type of medal.

Edited November 22, 2007 by Paul C

[Guest Rick Research]

Yeah, but this is normally a "repeat" award, so there'd be TWO of their generic war ribbons in a group with one of these--like your ribbon bar/lapel bow set.

[Paul R]

This is a great medal, Chris. I would have picked it as well!

[ccj]

This is a great medal, Chris. I would have picked it as well!

Darn,

I've been looking for one of those for YEARSSSS!!!

Can I have the other one?

Those are super awards and I'm partial to Baden

[dond]

Very nice Chris. One day I too will own one.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Very nice Chris. One day I too will own one.

;-)

[Chris Boonzaier]

actually I do. send me a pm with your email and I send a pic. I have a three place bar with the wide hook for this type of medal.

Hi Paul,

I think this is for the Verdienst medal?

If I am not mistaken, if this is on the bar there must be two of these ribbons.

Best

Chris

[Chip]

Chris,

What publication is Sascha's information from? How was he able to link the name to it? Just curious, as one would not expect to find such information on an enlisted man without some sort of name index.

Chip

[Chris Boonzaier]

Chris,

What publication is Sascha's information from? How was he able to link the name to it? Just curious, as one would not expect to find such information on an enlisted man without some sort of name index.

Chip

Hi,

the KFM was awarded 1280 times. A guy named Frank Zelosko was a book out with about 1100 of the citations. It has the name, unit and dzte of dirth as well, the above is just closely cropped.

Best

Chris

P.S. this should not be confused with the common Baden Verdienst medal.

[Guest Rick Research]

Baden's military archive has citations for the Military Karl Friuedrich Merit ORDER, so apparently they also kept records of the same for the affiliated Medal. The WW1 recipients' names have been published, done by the late Erhard Roth. I've also got copies of the actual rolls.

This medal-- despite its looks-- was a very big deal, so Baden being careful and attentive about the recipients is, luckily for us, a Very Good Thing Indeed.

It would be hard to make an exact equivalence, but I'd say the Silver Medal off the Military Karl Friedrich Order comes out as about the same (for enlisted ranks) as a Prussian Hohenzollern House Order with Xs or a WW2 German Cross in Gold.

There MIGHT have been initial awards of this Medal-- certainly there were recipients of the MKFVO who got that first and were never awarded a Z?hringen Lion Order with Xs as a result-- but I don't have the citations to verify such statistical anomalies.

I've never seen a Silver MKFVO Medal in a documented group that did not also have the ubiquitous Silver Merit Medal on MKFVO ribbon too.

[saschaw]

Hey Chris, that's been a good choise, congratulations.

I didn't read all the citations (only some of the 1,282 are missing), but most medals were awarded for a certain heroic act. Others were just awarded when the soldier was only "eingereicht" (?) for a Small Golden Merit medal but had yet an Iron Cross Ist class (sic!). I think most, almost all had yet their Silver Merit Medal.

[Wild Card]

Hi Chris Boonzaier,

Congratulations on acquiring an example of what in my opinion is one of the truly outstanding Imperial German medals. Consider this:

1. They were founded in 1807, so they were awarded for over one hundred an ten years, during which time,

2. there were subtle modifications which resulted in eight identified variations; and

3. makes this one of the earliest established awards for acts of personal bravery.

4. Because each is named, and thanks to the survival and publication of pertinent records, we can usually establish

5. to whom each medal was awarded and

6. what it was awarded for.

7. Last, but by no means least, these medals are just spectacular. The engraving and finishing work, which is further enhanced by their size and weight, has to rate up with the best. With regard to the last point, from 1806 onward, while the size remained constant at 40 mm, the weight increased. I imagine that your medal weighs around 34 gr., whereas the first models weighed 24.69 gr - a 38% increase. Below is a third model which should weigh 28.7 gr. but having a rather ornate replacement suspension bar weighs in at 30 gr.

Again Chris Boonzaier, congratulations, you have a real keeper.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[Wild Card]

Reverse.

[ccj]

Reverse.

Wow, what's the story behind this one? This is a first for me, I know they exist but I never thought I'd see one that old.

[Wild Card]

Wow, what's the story behind this one? This is a first for me, I know they exist but I never thought I'd see one that old.

Hi ccj,

I?m sorry to say that I do not have any information on this particular award. In case you can not exactly read the recipient?s name, it is ?Bilharz?.

Regards,

Wild Card

[Wild Card]

I've never seen a Silver MKFVO Medal in a documented group that did not also have the ubiquitous Silver Merit Medal on MKFVO ribbon too.

Rick,

Would this qualify?

[Guest Rick Research]

I meant World War One groups...

I've never SEEN any as far back as those!

Presumably the Baden Archives should have THEIR citations, too?

[Wild Card]

I kind of figured that; but I thought that you had seen this bar. It?s the one where the recipient was too cheap to buy an 1866 bar, so he stamped 1866 over the 1870-71. This bar belonged to Gefreiter Ludwig Rauch of the 3rd Inf. Regt. The Carl Friedrich medal was Awarded on 8 January 1871 ?... [.in] acknowledgment of outstanding bravery on 18 December 1870 in the battle at Nuits?.

[saschaw]

I?m sorry to say that I do not have any information on this particular award. In case you can not exactly read the recipient?s name, it is ?Bilharz?.

In Zelosko's book, there's some information:

"Billharz. Feldwebel im 4. Linien-InfRgt von Neuenstein. Silberne Medaille am 4. November 1813, 42 Gulden [335] ...wegen bewiesener Tapferkeit in fr?heren Feldz?gen.

... ad Decr. vom 13. November 1823 K.M.Nr. 10196 dem Feldwebel Bilharz im 4. Linieninfant.-Rgt. die verlorene Medaille ersetzt."

So he was awarded the medal for bravery in earlier wars and got a nice amount of money with it in 1813, later lost his medal and got an replacement in 1823 - which is your medal, isn't it? This isn't much but I guess all that could have been found on him ...

[Wild Card]

Hi Saschaw,

Many, many thanks for the information. As I previously indicated, I did not have anything on this man and his award.

I don?t know if you noticed it or not, but this medal is a third type. According to Nimmergut, this model was awarded from 1814-1845, so I had always assumed that this was one of the very first awarded in 1814 for action in late 1813. The fact that it is a (documented) replacement from 1823 makes much more sense.

Again, thank you for this great news.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[saschaw]

I didn't read all the citations (only some of the 1,282 are missing), but most medals were awarded for a certain heroic act. Others were just awarded when the soldier was only "eingereicht" (?) for a Small Golden Merit medal but had yet an Iron Cross Ist class (sic!). I think most, almost all had yet their Silver Merit Medal.

I read yesterday some more of the citations and some NCOs were awarded this bravery medal as initial Baden award - when they yet had the EK I! I still didn't read all but found some of those ... but it's rather uncommon for a Baden NCO to have the EK II and I, but not yet the Silver Merit Medal, so I think these are just very few.