Soviet High-Priced Groups

[slava1stclass]

To all:

Check it out:

http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=18377

http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=18876

Regards,

slava1stclass

[Ed_Haynes]

Wow!!!

[Noor]

Where those groups come from?????

Haven't seen anything like that a long time! They are just amaizing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Paul R]

Hmmmm buy a house or a grouping... decisions decisions.

Seriously significant groupings, but my God!!

I wonder what museum these came out of?

[highfive]

These are probably from old collection, it's good time to get some good money for your goodies.

[Elmar Lang]

Nothing to say more than: excellent groups indeed...

[matteti]

Nothing to say more than: excellent groups indeed...

Respectfully, I disagree with the previous statement. On the Kutuzov 1st class group, the serial number is very weird and seem to have been altered. On the other group, there are also very weird serial numbers engraving and ugly conversions to say the least... This is not what I call problem-free groups. Even if I could afford, I wouldn't buy groups like these.

But I guess these days, all the nice problem-free groups are in collectors hands and they keep them dearly... thus the reason why they don't show on the market.

[Christian Zulus]

Gentlemen,

I think, that these two Kutuzov-groups are o.k. .

Also the asked prices are rather moderate - o.k., nobody of us can afford to buy them , but if you would buy the items of these two groups seperatly, you would have to pay a higher price, I guess.

Order of Kutuzov & altered serial numbers:

I myself have a Kutuzov 2cl with an altered serial number in my collection, which is genuine. Igor's 1cl has almost identical traces around the s/n., as my 2cl. "Victory Parade" ....

I guess, that Igor can't afford, to put any not-100-%-stuff at his dealers website. Igor had been always 100 % - and that's his reputation .

Best regards

Christian

Respectfully, I disagree with the previous statement. On the Kutuzov 1st class group, the serial number is very weird and seem to have been altered. On the other group, there are also very weird serial numbers engraving and ugly conversions to say the least... This is not what I call problem-free groups. Even if I could afford, I wouldn't buy groups like these.

But I guess these days, all the nice problem-free groups are in collectors hands and they keep them dearly... thus the reason why they don't show on the market.

[Paul R]

Yes, I was a regular customer of Igor's back in the early 90s. He has always prided himself on the product and service he offers. I have always enjoyed doing business with him. He always took the time to educate and answer questions.

[Ed_Haynes]

There may be some oddities in these groups, but I agree with Christian and don't see much reson for shrill and panic-ridden concern. Frankly, I prefer the clumsily altered for wear from ribbons awards over those altered and then "restored" (= faked back) to screwback condition. I see these randomly rigged setups as part of any group's character. Those serial numbers would require close and careful attention, though.

Not as if any of us mere mortals can afford such things anyway.

Just for comparison, I happened to be looking through one of Igor's old (paper) catalogues last night, from August 1998 (not THAT long ago!?). An interesting group stood out:

Kutuzov 1

Khmelnitsky 2

Suvorov 2

two Lenins

4 Red banners (missing his "2", but with the original, "3" and "4")

plus medals and research

A broken group, but nice. For what was then an astronomical $16,500. What would this group be today?? I tremble to wonder . . .

There were also two Glory 1/2/3 sets, $4,600 and $3,850 and a Glory 1 single at $2,400. Where DID I park that time machine . . . ???

While Igor is first and foremost a businessman, he sees selling fakes and giving unprofessional service as bad business. While occasional fakes passed through his hands in the Old Days, he has learned enough to avoid these. And he is right, as the shoddy performance and tawdry behavior of others throws into high relief. Unfortunately, he has learned the basic ECON 101 lesson that there is more profit in selling one $190,000 mega-group than in selling one hundred $1,900 items of one thousand $190 things. And, in these strange days, these six-digit wonders WILL sell. Eventually. Meanwhile, we "proles" can drool outside the double-glazed windows of our betters.

Edited April 27, 2008 by Ed_Haynes

[Stogieman]

.... actually, I would suspect triple-glazed, low UV, high RF thermo-panes. (Cleaned by someone else)

[Elmar Lang]

.... actually, I would suspect triple-glazed, low UV, high RF thermo-panes. (Cleaned by someone else)

...I'm lost... I don't understand, but only partially, such technical terms. I cannot find my copy of the FM "Authorized Abbreviations"...

Enzo

[Stogieman]

Hi Enzo, it was a joke on a type of window.

The best windows you can buy in the US have triple-glazing (3 panes of glass), low UV (don't allow a lot of ultra-violet light/heat into the building), and high RF (insulates well against heat/cold).

If you can afford those.... you can also afford to have someone else clean the drool off of the outside where Ed will be.

[zook]

The Borisov Group is mine... on sale via consignment. I purchased this group during the "happy time" ... back in the late 90s. The group photo with Batov was part of the original offering, but the very nice original (profile) photo actually came back with the research! It is one of my nicest groups... but I am narrowing down my collection, and decided to part with it. Dan

[zook]

The Borisov Group is mine... on sale via consignment. I purchased this group during the "happy time" ... back in the late 90s. The group photo with Batov was part of the original offering, but the very nice original (profile) photo actually came back with the research! It is one of my nicest groups... but I am narrowing down my collection, and decided to part with it. Dan

To add - the group is not modified.... I have had it in storage for the most part since 2000..... I believe the actual recipient had his orders modified for parade wear... I did not originally purchase this group from Igor, but another highly reputable dealer out of Berlin, back when we would all gather at Paul (McDaniel's) house and review these groups as they hit the states.

regards, Dan

[Bob]

The Borisov Group is mine... on sale via consignment. I purchased this group during the "happy time" ... back in the late 90s. The group photo with Batov was part of the original offering, but the very nice original (profile) photo actually came back with the research! It is one of my nicest groups... but I am narrowing down my collection, and decided to part with it. Dan

"one of my nicest" - ehmmm would it be possible to share some pictures / background of "some" of your other ones?

[zook]

"one of my nicest" - ehmmm would it be possible to share some pictures / background of "some" of your other ones?

Bob - well, for high end orders...that was my largest group. However, I am holding onto my HSU group to an infantryman in the 60th Army, and my cavalier group .... to a miner/lathe operator form the Donbass region. For the cavalier group ... it also includes several photos... the soldier not only earned all three Glory orders... but returned to work in the Donbass...and earned the miner's medal. Again, all documented in newspaper articles and period photos. I am about to do some business travel...but will be happy to post following travel.

[Bob]

That would be great "zook" - I'm sure many people here on the forum incl. myself would love to get a view on the groups you mentioned.

[NavyFCO]

Seeing the Borisov group made me almost choke on my gum... I had horrible visions of the Kutuzov 2nd group with three Red Banners AND all the other medals PLUS ID documents, photos, etc. to a WW2 general that I passed up in about 2002 for $1700...why did I pass it up? Oh, it was missing his Lenin. After all, WHY would someone want a broken group like that???

Dave

[Bryan]

A jump from $1 700 in 2002 to $53 000 in 2008 is what I call inflation.