Tom Y Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 The Baden Feldienst-Auszeichen was established in 1838 for veterans of the Napoleonic Wars. Originally in oxidized copper-bronze, in 1866 the composition was changed to copper. Dates of service were denoted by bars with the year/years 1806, 1806-1807, 1807, 1809, 1809-1810, 1812,1808-1813, 1813, 1814, 1814-1815, 1815, 1848, 1849, 1866, 1870, 1870-71, and 1871. Interestingly, there seems to be no bar for the 1864 Danish War. To differentiate between the Danish War of 1848-49 and the civil unrest at home a medal was struck with the same obverse but only the name of the engagement;Kandern, G?ntersthal, Freiburg, or Staufen engraved on the reverse and mounted on a ribbon with the wide red stripes of the Karl Friedrich Verdienstmedaille.You can see Wild Card's 1813 Schleife in post #19 here and the last of the lot here.
Tom Y Posted July 13, 2008 Author Posted July 13, 2008 Feel free to add yours. I'd particularly like to see one from the Brudersmord of 1848.
saschaw Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 (edited) Thanks for starting this thread and your nice bars, I like the first one especially. 😃 Tom Y said: Originally in oxidized copper-bronze, in 1866 the composition was changed to copper. I had yet many of the medals (and some more in hands) but still cannot differ those - could please someone tell me how to do that... Tom Y said: Dates of service were denoted by bars with the year/years 1806, 1806-1807, 1807, 1809, 1809-1810, 1812,1808-1813, 1813, 1814, 1814-1815, 1815, 1848, 1849, 1866, 1870, 1870-71, and 1871. You missed the "1805" issue. Well, most of that bars I've never seen by now... ;o( Tom Y said: Interestingly, there seems to be no bar for the 1864 Danish War. Mh... did any Badeners fight in 1864? I don't think so, but to be honest - I don't know for sure. Tom Y said: To differentiate between the Danish War of 1848-49 and the civil unrest at home a medal was struck with the same obverse but only the name of the engagement;Kandern, Güntersthal, Freiburg, or Staufen engraved on the reverse and mounted on a ribbon with the wide red stripes of the Karl Friedrich Verdienstmedaille. Well, the "homefront" guys who fought in Baden against the revolutionists were something very special and therefore especially decorated. Only 50 examples of the engraved medal to be worn on bravery ribbon were coined, all awarded with the different battles engraved. Does anyone here - Wild Card? - owne one of those... ? It would be really really great to see one of those, or any bar or just mounted groups even without the battle clasps for actions before 1866. I've never seen a Baden bar with French St. Helena medal but the one pictures and described in OMM 40... PS: I've some medal bars with the medal too but will show them, if someone wants to see any - tomorrow, as I've got to go to bed now PPS: I realized just now your 2nd has a "1870" and a "1871" bar instead of the "1870 - 1871" one. Do you know why, has this any special reason? Those two are both rarer than the combined one, but I've seen that once before. It just makes no sense... Edited April 17, 2023 by saschaw
Tom Y Posted July 13, 2008 Author Posted July 13, 2008 You missed the "1805" issue. Well, most of that bars I've never seen by now... ;o(von Hessenthal doesn't list the 1805 bar. It was proposed, but whether it was actually produced I don't know.
Mike Huxley Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Tom, Great thread with some nice bars posted. Please allow me to add my poor old battered bar with 1870-71 clasp. Unfortunatly the clasp on the reverse has long gone.
saschaw Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) Nice bars Gentlemen... but where are the older ones I asked for... ? Tom Y said: von Hessenthal doesn't list the 1805 bar. It was proposed, but whether it was actually produced I don't know. Indeed, H&S don't list it, but H. Volle (and therefore Nimmergut) do, but don't have a picture. As said, I've hardly ever seen those old ones, so cannot say something for sure about the "1805" one. I just realized I have just one 1870 medal bar to a Baden soldier, really really thought to have two or three... Well, at least some more lose medals and clasps, but as those are yet all shown no more need to show. Here my medal bar, not in best condition but original and not the worst with ("additional" to the common trio for any Baden 1870 vet in 1897) peacetime merit medal and military long service decoration IInd class from pre 1913: PS: got that bar from eBay.com some years ago quite cheap, think it was about <US $300. But on the other hand, back than those $300 were much more for me than they would be today. Edited April 17, 2023 by saschaw
saschaw Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) Well, that was my only medal bar - now here's my only button with the ribbon. When I bought it I wasn't sure it may be a WWI combination with Lippe cross, but the ribbon looks more Baden-ish and the whole thing does neither look like WWI nor like 1930s. One question: what is that last ribbon? Was that a Badener with Württemberg long service award? Or is it any foreign decoration that does not come to my mind?! Thanks in advance... Edited April 17, 2023 by saschaw
Noor Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 PS: got that bar from eBay.com some years ago quite cheap, think it was about <US $300. But on the other hand, back than those $300 were much more for me than they would be today. Thats great investment what you have in there! I really like it! :cool:
Wild Card Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 Does anyone here - Wild Card? - owne one of those... ? I can only wish.
Wild Card Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 Gentlemen,This thread made me take a quick look through Eric Ludvigsen?s archives. Although I did not find what I hoped to, I did come across a couple of things that merited posting anyway.First is an 1849 bar.
Wild Card Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 The second is a silver Karl Friedrich Military Merit Medal awarded to a Sgt. Lindenberg of the Prussian 24th Inf. Rgt. for action against rebel Baden units in 1849.
Wild Card Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 Mike Huxley?s bar in post #9 reminded me of this one, which I have posted before, awarded to Gefreiter Ludwig Rauch...
Wild Card Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 who, for whatever reason, chose to have ?1866? impressed into his 1870-1871 bar
saschaw Posted August 2, 2008 Posted August 2, 2008 (edited) Thanks, really nice stuff, especially the one shown by Wild Card, even if not his. Ulsterman, do you know what that's in 1st place on the medal bar on the photo? Is that a silver merit medal on MCF ribbon or is it a real Military Carl Friedrich Medal... ? Any opinions on my bow from #13? That thing makes me crazy... Keep them coming - still waiting for more of the older stuff. Edited April 17, 2023 by saschaw
David M Posted August 3, 2008 Posted August 3, 2008 Would the 1849 version be also the one which was handed to foreign troops aiding the Grandduke in his struggle, like prussian and a well.....kurhessians ?
saschaw Posted August 3, 2008 Posted August 3, 2008 Would the 1849 version be also the one which was handed to foreign troops aiding the Grandduke in his struggle, like prussian and a well.....kurhessians ?The 1849 medal given to foreign troops? Nooooo. From what I know the Felddienst-Auszeichnung was ONLY given to Badeners. The medal given for 1849 to the aid troops from Prussia, Bavaria, Hassia, Churhassia was that one - not rare at all (the Felddienst-Auszeichnung with "1849." clasp is). A bit harder to find is the original ribbon - yellow with silver stripes as the Baden House order of Fidelity has. The lose medal itself is pretty common, I guess you can buy one every week on eBay.de: ;)
saschaw Posted August 3, 2008 Posted August 3, 2008 (edited) Ah, by the way "Kurhessen" - in my small collection I have this nice medal bar. It is a 1849 and 1870/71 officer's bar and seems to be Prussian but does not have the Prussian Hohenzollern'sche Denkmünze that any Prussian got. A very educated collector from a German forum came to the clue it has to be a Kurhessen officer's bar as I is not a Prussian, not a Bavarian, not a Hesse -Darmstadt.: as any of those would have gotten an award by their own monarchs, just the Kurhessen did not get anything, neither for 1849 nor for 1866. After 1866 he served with and as a Prussian officer. What do you, as a expert for Kurhessen, think about this? Possible? Anything else makes no sense... PS: If anyones wonders about the additional EK ribbon on the back: when I bough the bar there were no oaks on the ribbon and a 1914 EK on the bar. I replaced the right one and added the oaks (there were holes in the ribbon). But the original ribbon was sewn onto the EK and I didn't want to remove something that was there for 100 years. Edited April 17, 2023 by saschaw
David M Posted August 3, 2008 Posted August 3, 2008 The 1849 medal given to foreign troops? Nooooo. From what I know the Felddienst-Auszeichnung was ONLY given to Badeners. The medal given for 1849 to the aid troops from Prussia, Bavaria, Hassia, Churhassia was that one - not rare at all (the Felddienst-Auszeichnung with "1849." clasp is). A bit harder to find is the original ribbon - yellow with silver stripes as the Baden House order of Fidelity has. The lose medal itself is pretty common, I guess you can buy one every week on eBay.de: Hi! (and thanks for calling me an expert )Well indeed the 3rd and last Elector did not award any kind of campaign specific medals. However finding something just by excluding all other possibilities is never a conclusive methode in my opinion. Certainly as there does not seem to be any kind of other kurhessian medal (the only one eligible would be the 25 years service cross for officers) a kurhessian officer, however likely by the missing of other medals, could have only been a low-ranking one (pre-Major) who got into prussian service 1866. And most of them did. I will look up the specific numbers for you later today, but think in 80-100 from the top of my head.So kurhessian?: possible, however in my opinion an identification would not very likely to be made. should someone feel different about my ideas above, please don't hesitate to correct meDavid
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