Z-Lion

[saschaw]

Of course you are right, these things were from the "Nachlass" of Otto Braun, but the awards and documents were from:

- August Braun

- his Son Otto Baun

- Otto Braun's son in law Prof. Giercke

and also of some of their wifes. The very nice medal bar and ribbon bar were of none of these as the two Brauns were dead before WWI and Giercke had other awards ...

I really took a close look at these things when me and my father visited the seller, can trust me in this ...

Did you buy anything else, or just the ribbon bar with the bow?

[Wild Card]

For people who love devices on ribbon bar.

I have 2 oakleaves and they are very different. Your comments are welcome.

Regards

Christophe

Hi Christophe,

I would say that the device on the left is a good representation of the OZL oakleaves while the one on he right, to me, is more "Prussian" as would be associated with PLM?s and Red Eagles.

Anyone else?

[Stijn David]

Hello,

Im a late one but one question always runs towards my mind => who did make these absolute beauty's? Is there a way to find out who mad ewich type of Z?hringer?

Cordial greetings,

[saschaw]

Im a late one but one question always runs towards my mind => who did make these absolute beauty's? Is there a way to find out who mad ewich type of Z?hringer?

As far as I know makers are know but it's hard to tell a particular piece being made by a maker as most (at least the silber WWI ones) are without any marks. Some are sometimes marked, e.g. with "B" for "Ludwig Bertsch, Karlsruhe", "Z" for "Joseph Zuber, Karlsruhe" and also Zimmermann in Pforzheim made many - methinks most of the WWI stuff, but I actually don't KNOW it ...

Would be very nice and interessting to learn about this, as it's a question very interresting, also for me.

[Stijn David]

Hello,

Here is the piece earned by Leutnant der Reserve Oskar Morath (Artillerie officer), as wel as his EK 2 + ribbon bar.

Cordial greetings,

Edited November 18, 2006 by Stijn David

[Stijn David]

Hello,

Here is a better scan from the "Bandspange" => feel free to add more

Cordial greetings,

[Deruelle]

Very nice big ribbon bar. First time I see one with BZ ribbon.

Christophe

[Red Eagle]

Here my last Lion. I was given a home for him.

The OZL is light damaged. The silverplates under the green glasses are not in best condition. Also the ribbon. It must be wet for some times. The red color on the ribbon must be from the case.

But is it a commandercross, made from gold, 53,4 X 49,4 mm, 26,6 g.

Medaillon 18mm, weared ribbon 64 mm. No marks.

Red

[Blitz]

In the spirit of sharing.. My 1st cl. RK with X, gold.

[Blitz]

reverse..

[Blitz]

My 1st cl. RK w/o X, also gold.

[Blitz]

And reverse.. I would post them all, but that would feel like hijacking this thread..

[dond]

And reverse.. I would post them all, but that would feel like hijacking this thread..

Post away, I never get tired of seeing these!!!

[Blitz]

Allright, as per request.. 2nd cl. RK w/o X, 1870's..

[Blitz]

Reverse..

[Blitz]

2nd cl. with X ww1 issue, sorry I don't have more pics at hand on this one.. I'll have to take more during the holidays..

[Blitz]

The merit cross in it's case..

[Blitz]

My smallest family member. Judging from the company it's been keeping, It's either a commander or a 1st cl.

Edited December 17, 2006 by Blitz

[Blitz]

More detail..

[Blitz]

The reverse. And if there is interest, I can show you the big case..

[Gerd Becker]

I have a question to the Knights crosses of the Order of the Z?hringer L?we. Nimmergut lists the 1st class and the 2nd class of the Knights cross with swords on the ring. Now, i know, that swords on the ring on prussian orders means, the wearer had the lower class of this order with swords, but that wouldn?t make sense for the Z?hringer L?we. So, what does the swords on the ring signify on the OZL?

[saschaw]

"Schwerter am Ring" were awarded for military merits of NON military persons (and as well to physicians and ministers), and as far as I know only in the 1866 and 1870/71 years - none in WWI.

ONE Commander Cross IInd class with swords on ring

THREE Knight Crosses Ist class with swords on ring

Thirteen Knight Crosses IInd class with swords on ring.

Not to many, Hmm?

I've yet seen some offered, but did not like them really ...

Nimmergut showed one in his 2003/04 OEK which seems to be fine - this one is (if I remember correctly) in the "Wehrgeschichtl. Museum Rastatt". It's the same H. Volle shows in his book about Baden's Orders and Decorations in 1976.

PS:

I've none of them.

[Gerd Becker]

Besten Dank, Sascha

[Wild Card]

"Schwerter am Ring" were awarded for military merits of NON military persons (and as well to physicians and ministers), and as far as I know only in the 1866 and 1870/71 years - none in WWI.

ONE Commander Cross IInd class with swords on ring

THREE Knight Crosses Ist class with swords on ring

Thirteen Knight Crosses IInd class with swords on ring.

Not to many, Hmm?

I've yet seen some offered, but did not like them really ...

Nimmergut showed one in his 2003/04 OEK which seems to be fine - this one is (if I remember correctly) in the "Wehrgeschichtl. Museum Rastatt". It's the same H. Volle shows in his book about Baden's Orders and Decorations in 1976.

PS:

I've none of them.

I knew that they were rare; but never realized how rare; thanks for the information. I remember very well the OMSA convention about fifteen years ago where a well known collector was selling his OZL collection. He had a bunch of ?em (swords on ring).

What I particularly remember is how shiny and bright they were, especially the 2nd class pieces.

Maybe too shiny and bright?

Definitely too shiny and bright. Now that I think about it, there were some with swords and swords on ring.

[saschaw]

Probably to shiny, yes.

Now that I think about it, there were some with swords and swords on ring.

Oh, they are really rare, where they with or without oak leaves?

Well, no more combinations than listed in OEK are possible, none with "Schwerter am Ring" and anything additional, as the swords on ring had in Baden another meaning than they had in Prussia.