Schaumburg-Lippe Cross for Faithful Service

[dond]

You don't see these too often so I would like to gat some opinions. Thanks in advance.

D

[Guest Rick Research]

There were 36 originals (I think the list was posted here someplace on a previous occasion) so all I can offer is grim statistical probability.

[Claudio]

As Rick said this decoration is as rare as hen's teeth... I would only buy it with a rock solid proof of origin and prefer to choose one piece made by Meybauer, with the typical pin back shape and marks. Anything else I would keep my hands off... I saw so many of these being offered, but of course this comment of mine is quite uneducated and I should learn more about it. Truth is there are no really good references or books to support your choice... the only possibility is to compare it with a original, text book piece, on which all collectors and enthusiast student of German Imperial orders can agree to be without any reasonable an authentic pin back tipe decoration being awarded during WWI.

Just my 2 cents...

Ciao,

Claudio

[Ferg1]

Just to add a little history about this actual piece. This medal was originally owned by me, but was part of a trade deal with a dealer for a army zeppelin badge a few months ago. The medal was bought originally by me from an auction several years ago ,it was the dissolving of the Colonel Dodkin collection of which this was a piece. A large amount of the Dodkin collection was,I believe, gleaned in the early 30's this piece was mounted on an old home made display board along with the other Lippe war crosses ,it was obviously made up by the collector/Colonel but was in my mind at least 50+ years old ,just the condition /smell etc. of the board told me it was fairly old. The detail itself on the medal is quite different from the usual ribboned pieces. The edge rim is much deeper than normal and the detail of crown etc is better. Everything I bought from the collection has checked out IMO original , pilot badges, some lovely old Imperial German awards etc... Just wanted to shed a little light on the history of this badge/medal.Ferg1.

[Christian J]

Just to add a little history about this actual piece. This medal was originally owned by me, but was part of a trade deal with a dealer for a army zeppelin badge a few months ago. The medal was bought originally by me from an auction several years ago ,it was the dissolving of the Colonel Dodkin collection of which this was a piece. A large amount of the Dodkin collection was,I believe, gleaned in the early 30's this piece was mounted on an old home made display board along with the other Lippe war crosses ,it was obviously made up by the collector/Colonel but was in my mind at least 50+ years old ,just the condition /smell etc. of the board told me it was fairly old. The detail itself on the medal is quite different from the usual ribboned pieces. The edge rim is much deeper than normal and the detail of crown etc is better. Everything I bought from the collection has checked out IMO original , pilot badges, some lovely old Imperial German awards etc... Just wanted to shed a little light on the history of this badge/medal.Ferg1.

Very interesting hearing of these pieces background history. There you see how much of it is lost by the change of few hands.

Did you acquire the whole display board, if so would it be possible to see it?

[Ferg1]

I did not keep the display board, it was not in good condition and really of no relevance or importance to the medals, it was old ,yes but nothing to do with the lippe crosses themselves. It was just a 12" x 16" approx . thick card with a faded blue velvet covering and edging ,quite crudely done but not recent. Obviously ,had it been German or of the period like a makers display board it would have remained untouched. Ferg1.

[Ulsterman]

It was a Dodkins piece?

Well, he was no fool.

Personally, I would look very carefully at Meybauer pieces. This companies stamp has shown up on a number of suspect badges over the past 10-15 years, notably imperial flight badges. Interestingly though, one doesn't see an overwhelming plethora of these stamped badges, which might be an argument for originality.

[Tom63]

You don't see these too often so I would like to gat some opinions. Thanks in advance.

D

My opinion - cross doubtful. Why? The manufacturer of a cross Godet. There is a picture from the catalog.

[Tom63]

The pin is alikе, and hinge not Godet.

[Tom63]

One more similar "rarity"

http://www.emedals.ca/catalog.asp?item=GST695

"Rarity №2".Made in Hauptmunzamt,Canada.

http://www.emedals.ca/catalog.asp?item=GST611

Edited September 7, 2008 by Tom63

[Eric Stahlhut]

hope this helps-- perhaps not towards the cross in question (sorry), but moreso towards these items in general

Edited September 8, 2008 by Eric Stahlhut

[Eric Stahlhut]

[Guest Rick Research]

How about this for a hypothesis--

there are FAR too many of these floating around to be fakes of 36 awarded to Princes...

so perhaps these were inventions of the "anything goes" 1920s for veterans who decided for themselves that these were "equivalents" of an EK1... to which they were "entitled" and... bought for themselves?

This is one of those situations where period photographs may illuminate the problem, since statistically speaking there is

.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000137 percent chance of any royal ones floating around. .

[Eric Stahlhut]

no kidding.

but good luck with finding a period pic showing the back of the cross. heh.

p.s. let's not forget about meybauer's timeline. they didn't start to really crank stuff out until the 20s. imo.

Edited September 8, 2008 by Eric Stahlhut

[saschaw]

so perhaps these were inventions of the "anything goes" 1920s for veterans who decided for themselves that these were "equivalents" of an EK1... to which they were "entitled" and... bought for themselves?

As it is the thing with those "Anhalt 1st classes", stupidly offered by the firms in the 20s/30s? This decoration actually did not even exist. None awarded, though available, and apparently bought. Presumably worn, but I've got no picture of that...

(here a variation rather by a L?denscheid firm from the 30s - very different hardware to all Schaumburg crosses shown here, but it's about the idea... )

[dond]

Thanks for all the replies. Tom, the cross shown is the first one you reference from emedals so there is one less rarity floating around out there. As for Godet pins and hinges, well they sure used quite a few variations so one more isn't illogical. Perhaps comparing catches would help. Rick is statistically probably correct with the 1920s anything goes. Perhaps a form of ordens-anarchy after the royalty was removed.

Saschaw- nice example and I've seen a pic somewhere of one of these in wear. Either here or on waf.

[dond]

One last note, when it arrived the first thing I thought when holding it was the same thing I thought when I saw Stonehenge for the first time- I thought it would be bigger.

[Eric Stahlhut]

here's another type... i like it, and think it is a good one

opinions?

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_08_2012/post-4736-0-74820000-1346452017.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_08_2012/post-4736-0-11704700-1346452051.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_08_2012/post-4736-0-43289100-1346452080.jpg

[Eric Stahlhut]

one of the reasons i like this version: the pin, catch, and hinge....compared to a sachse-coburg-gotha war cross. same maker is likely

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_09_2012/post-4736-0-46596400-1346711633.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_09_2012/post-4736-0-83538400-1346711647.jpg

[Troy Tempest]

Hi gents! I found this thread while trying to see if anyone knew about my second class version. It has a case, and UV negative ribbon. I don't really know anything about this award, I was hoping someone here could cast some light on it. Thanks as always!

[Troy Tempest]

Case

[Troy Tempest]

....

[Deruelle]

Hi Troy,

Very nice cross with box, congrats.

Christophe