Soviet Soviet & Eastern Block Quiz

[Christophe]

OK, Chuck!!

We'll wait...

Ch.

[Chuck In Oregon]

Gentlemen

I apologize for my tardiness. The simple fact is that I forgot to get the translation last week. I've got it now, so here's my puzzler:

Who is this woman and why should anyone care?

Hints:

1. This is a pre-1943 photo. Actually, a print.

2. This print is ex-Museum of the Revolution.

3. She is not a famous Russian rock star.

4. It may well be that this woman is too obscure for this contest.

I've already got another one. "Yeah, right" do I hear you say? No, really. Would you like me to run it concurrently with this one? It's a lot more colorful. Well, I suppose it could hardly be less colorful than this print.

Good luck all.

Chuck

[Christophe]

Hi Chuck,

Thanks for the challenge. A hard and tough one for sure !!!

Let's try this one first, and if really no one here approachs the answer, we will challenge it and run the other one concurrently...

Cheers.

Ch.

[Christophe]

I've no idea, and not a clue... Quite a tough one...

So, let's try a shot in the dark. Would it be young Nina Petrovna Khrushchev, the second wife of Nikita ?

Others, any idea ?

Ch.

[Chuck In Oregon]

I've no idea, and not a clue... Quite a tough one...

So, let's try a shot in the dark. Would it be young Nina Petrovna Khrushchev, the second wife of Nikita ?

Others, any idea ?

Ch.

* * * * *

Well, that's a clever answer. Wrong, but darn clever. You've got the era right but she was not among the nomenclatura.

Let's see, more hints may be in order.

5. Her fame, such as it was, was related to WW II.

6. Before the war she was a carpet factory worker.

7. She was held in low regard by the Germans.

Good luck. I have the second question and pictures ready to post.

Chuck

[Christophe]

* * * * *

Well, that's a clever answer. Wrong, but darn clever. (...)

Chuck

Thanks Chuck,

Clever maybe, but that's a wrong answer... Let's see if your new hints will inspire us...

Ch.

[Chuck In Oregon]

OK, no other guesses? I think this really was way too obscure for this thread.

An image of the reverse of the photo is attached. I translate it as follows:

Nina Pavlovna Potsova - a female spy.

Before war, she worked at Pyatigorsk's carpet factory.

She was prosecuted (shot) by the Germans in Pyatigorsk on January 6, 1943

I think that is the museum's archive or exhibit number in the lower left-hand corner on the reverse.

I chose her because several of my (quite) older Georgian friends told me that Ms. Potsova was later widely held up to Soviet citizenry as sort of a model worker-spy against the German and that her photo and story appeared in most Museums of the Revolution. She doesn't appear in my HSU reference and she now seems to be generally lost to history. Aw, c'mon. Who would shoot someone wearing an embroidered lace collar and a cute little hat like that? Oh yeah, the Nazis.

And now you know the rest of the story. (Thank you, Paul Harvey.)

I'm re-thinking my other question as it is also pretty obscure. Maybe I'll share it on a separate thread instead.

Chuck

[Ed_Haynes]

No, Chuck, give it to us here. We can take it. (Grrrr.) "Take it", and we hope "answer it". Do we get points for effort??

[Chuck In Oregon]

No, Chuck, give it to us here. We can take it. (Grrrr.) "Take it", and we hope "answer it". Do we get points for effort??

* * * * *

OK, this is for all you maniac obscurians without real lives to tend to. No, no names. I'm going to show you three pictures of a pocketwatch, then I'll tell you a little bit about it, then I'll ask my question.

Here's the first picture:

[Chuck In Oregon]

Here's the second picture:

[Chuck In Oregon]

And here's the third picture.

This early Soviet-era watch was fairly popular with higher-level nomenklatura. However, due to its high price -- and the obvious and unwelcome suggestion of wealth in the classless society -- not many of them were made, thus few survive. The very few you do find are similar to this one with one important exception: They do not have the hand-painted Kremlin clock tower and background. That detail was reserved for a very few.

So my question is, what was the significance of this watch?

As for credit for effort, since this is Christophe's thread I'll defer to him for the rules. But first you actually have to make an effort.

Good luck all. Before you say it, I did warn you that this was going to be obscure.

Chuck

[NavyFCO]

Hmmm... First, that's a BEAUTIFUL watch!

Second, my guess would be that it belonged to a member of the People's Deputies or the Supreme Soviet. It's definately a watch that would have been worn by a high ranking civilian; one of those types that "believed" in communism per-se... but liked the finer things in life and wasn't afraid to have nice stuff - because their contact with the mere mortals of the Soviet realm would be limited at best.

This could have belonged to a diplomat, but I just am not 100% comfortable with that answer. However, a good argument could be made for that, given the fine handwork done on it to impress foreign heads of state and other diplomats - and the painting of the Kremlin to remind the diplomat where their loyalties lay...

I'm going to also say that I'm pretty certain that it wouldn't have belonged to a military officer, as it seems a bit too ornate... The pocketwatches that I've seen from that time frame (even presentation ones) were normally very utalitarian, even if they were made of precious metals and expertly handcrafted.

Thus - my final answer - this belonged to a member of the Supreme Soviet.

Close????

Dave

[Chuck In Oregon]

Hmmm... First, that's a BEAUTIFUL watch!

Second, my guess would be that it belonged to a member of the People's Deputies or the Supreme Soviet. It's definately a watch that would have been worn by a high ranking civilian; one of those types that "believed" in communism per-se... but liked the finer things in life and wasn't afraid to have nice stuff - because their contact with the mere mortals of the Soviet realm would be limited at best.

This could have belonged to a diplomat, but I just am not 100% comfortable with that answer. However, a good argument could be made for that, given the fine handwork done on it to impress foreign heads of state and other diplomats - and the painting of the Kremlin to remind the diplomat where their loyalties lay...

I'm going to also say that I'm pretty certain that it wouldn't have belonged to a military officer, as it seems a bit too ornate... The pocketwatches that I've seen from that time frame (even presentation ones) were normally very utalitarian, even if they were made of precious metals and expertly handcrafted.

Thus - my final answer - this belonged to a member of the Supreme Soviet.

Close????

Dave

* * * * *

As a matter of fact, reasonably close. It is a special presentation piece but not one to members of the Supreme Soviet.

This watch was made in the Kirov factory. I'm told that it is the most well-known and highly-regarded of all the Russian watch factories. Since I've owned it, this watch has been to the factory for cleaning and repair. When it got there ... well, I'll tell more of the story later on.

Chuck

[Guest Graeme]

I believe it's Vasily Ivanovich Chuikov, "Defender of Stalingrad"

Commanded 4th Army, which was involved in the liberation of eastern Poland.

For the campaign against Finland he was given command of 9th Army. The campaign proved a disaster and Chuikov's Army was stopped at Suomussalmi and given a hammering by a much smaller well prepared finnish force, Chuikov due to a breakdown in communications, lost control of the battle. Despite this, Chuikov was promoted to Lieutenant General in mid 1940.

In July 1940 he commanded 64th Army which was attached to the Southern Front. In August he was replaced and instead given command of a special Operational Group, consisting of the 29th Rifle Division and the 154th Naval Brigade, responsible for protecting the southwestern approaches to Stalingrad. The group was pulled back into the city that same month and formed the Army Reserve for 64th Army.

In September Chuikov was appointed commander of 62nd Army by Khrushchev,and became famed as the "Defender of Stalingrad", when asked how he seen his task he replied 'We will defend the city, or die in the attempt!' to ensure every soldier felt the same he placed NKVD troops at all the crossings on the volga with shoot to kill orders to prevent desertions. He quickly became adept to the rapidly changing situation within the city and held 6th Armies advances within the city. In November the Russian forces of the Southwestern and Stalingrad Fronts launched operation Uranus, the encirclement of the German 6th Army in Stalingrad. This day marked the turning point in the battle for the city. Chuikov Following the battle for Stalingrad was awarded The Order of Lenin and The Order of the Red Star for his outstanding service to the Soviet Union.

Chuikov went onto command a redesignated 8th Guards Army in recognition of its achievements at Stalingrad, this was made up of many of the elements of 62nd Army. He them saw offensive action at the battle of Kursk, the Donbas Operation, the Nikopol Krivoi Rog Operation, Odessa Operation for this in April 1944 he was awarded with his first title Hero of the Soviet Union for the heroism and courage he had shown in the Battles following Stalingrad.

He went on through Belorussia, Poland and took part in the Vistula Oder Operation and then spearheaded the drive towards Berlin.

In April 1945 he was awarded his second title Hero of the Soviet Union for the heroism and courage he had shown during the capture of Berlin.

This is my 1st post on the day i,ve joined and I think the idea of a quiz in inspired.

Thanks for reading and providing this fantastic forum. Graeme

[Ed_Haynes]

Welcome Graeme!

Ed

[Chuck In Oregon]

Hello Graeme

Welcome to the forum! I think you're going to like it here. Thanks for the history. I always enjoy it.

This watch is from an earlier period.

Last hint: 1928

[Christophe]

(...) She doesn't appear in my HSU reference and she now seems to be generally lost to history. (...) Chuck

Thanks again, Chuck, for this interesting challenge...

Just let me know : has she been awarded an HSU ? What do the captions in the Museums say ?

A really heroic story!! Thanks for it.

Ch.

PS : Now, let's look back at your watch...

[Christophe]

I believe it's Vasily Ivanovich Chuikov, "Defender of Stalingrad" (...) Graeme

Graeme,

Welcome to the Forum!!!

In fact, I think you have answered to the 2nd question in post #20. Your answer is totally correct.

Now, let's try to find the question about Chuck's watch... Do you have any idea ?

And, again, welcome to the Forum!!!

Ch.

[Chuck In Oregon]

Thanks again, Chuck, for this interesting challenge...

Just let me know : has she been awarded an HSU ? What do the captions in the Museums say ?

A really heroic story!! Thanks for it.

Ch.

PS : Now, let's look back at your watch...

* * * * *

Hi Christophe

You already know everything that I know about Ms. Potsova. The museum displays probably didn't survive the sacking and looting after independence -- the museum itself didn't, either -- and all I know is what was related to me by friends. I have seen some high-value and historic museum items that were most likely taken by museum staff but this photo was more likely to have been grabbed during the general pandemonium and rioting. I'll never know for sure.

Until very recently there was almost nothing in Tbilisi that in any way reflected their Soviet history. Now I understand that there is a new small museum, or maybe it's part of the national museum, that displays some Soviet-period items. I'll be there in a week and I plan to check it out then.

Now about that watch ...

Chuck

[Christophe]

* * * * *

Hi Christophe

You already know everything that I know about Ms. Potsova. The museum displays probably didn't survive the sacking and looting after independence -- the museum itself didn't, either -- and all I know is what was related to me by friends. I have seen some high-value and historic museum items that were most likely taken by museum staff but this photo was more likely to have been grabbed during the general pandemonium and rioting. I'll never know for sure.

Until very recently there was almost nothing in Tbilisi that in any way reflected their Soviet history. Now I understand that there is a new small museum, or maybe it's part of the national museum, that displays some Soviet-period items. I'll be there in a week and I plan to check it out then.

Now about that watch ...

Chuck

Chuck,

Thanks for the details. Very interesting... and, I hope, promising. Please, don't hesitate to post more info as soon as you have some.

And, now, about that watch ?

Ch.

[Christophe]

Chuck,

Is it linked to the creation of the Soviet watch industry : the decision of the Soviet government (20 December 1927) to establish and develop a watch industry, and on 21 December, the resolution passed by thr Council of Labor and Defense ?About How to Organize Watch Production in the USSR.? ?

Ch.

[Chuck In Oregon]

I was shutting down my computer in preparation for my departure this afternoon when I remembered that I hadn't finished this. I'm sorry.

I once wrote an essay called "The Watch That Went To Moscow". Here's the gist of it.

When I bought this watch it was just an empty case and a bag full of loose parts and the face. I was only attracted by the case. Some friends in the senior Georgian diplomatic corps took this watch to the factory near Moscow and met with the factory director. He was very surprised to see it. He said they only know of one other example and that is the one in their factory museum. According to him, this watch was a presentation piece to the senior Gosplan officials who prepared the first five-year plan. They agreed to bring it back to as near new condition as they could. They even scrounged some parts from their exhibit watch to repair this one. The only thing they couldn't replace or fix was the crystal.

They were going to give us (my friends) a nice factory letter about the history of the watch. However, when they realized that the watch would be going back to Georgia they became very irate. They threatened to call the militia to prevent that from happening and they refused to turn the watch back over. My friends answered that they were, after all, accredited diplomats and they would be happy to call the militia for them but they were definitely taking the watch back with them right then. Well, they did, but as you can imagine the director wasn't a happy man. So much for the nice factory letter.

OK, I'm outta here for three weeks. Someone else will have to step up with the next question. I'll log in while I'm in Tbilisi if I get the chance.

Chuck

[Ed_Haynes]

Fascinating . . . good trip, Chuck!

[Christophe]

Chuck,

Many thanks for this story; a really interesting one and a superb piece. I also wish you a good trip.

So, we have no winner... Is there anyone candidate for the next question ?

Cheers.

Ch.

[Christophe]

Chuck,

Many thanks for this story; a really interesting one and a superb piece. I also wish you a good trip.

So, we have no winner... Is there anyone candidate for the next question ?

Cheers.

Ch.