Guest Darrell Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 If anyone is looking for a "decent" priced Red Bible (decent in the sense of what these have been going for) on e-bay here:http://cgi.ebay.ca/MCDANIEL-GUIDE-BOOK-B-T...1QQcmdZViewItem$179.00 BUY IT NOW. And from someone in the USA.
paddywhack Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 (edited) buy this if you like soviet award and decorations and dont have this!!! im SO glad i walked into dublin to an auction on a VEEEEEERRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYY badly twisted ankle to get my copy of the bible!! the amount of offers iv had for it!!!!! and noor nope still not selling or trading it or echoes of war!!! :beer: Edited October 24, 2008 by paddywhack
Ed_Haynes Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 Shipping anywhere for this will cost a lot. $175 at Collect Russia for a new copy.
Guest Darrell Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 Shipping anywhere for this will cost a lot. $175 at Collect Russia for a new copy.I personally stay away from a site that has exploded his prices to sell out to the Millionaires.
Lapa Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 If anyone is looking for a "decent" priced Red Bible (decent in the sense of what these have been going for) on e-bay here:http://cgi.ebay.ca/MCDANIEL-GUIDE-BOOK-B-T...1QQcmdZViewItem$179.00 BUY IT NOW. And from someone in the USA.Darrell,Personally, I would not rush to buy this book, especially at that price It was published over 11 years ago, and by now is, IMHO, grossly outdated.Marc
Guest Darrell Posted October 24, 2008 Posted October 24, 2008 Darrell,Personally, I would not rush to buy this book, especially at that price It was published over 11 years ago, and by now is, IMHO, grossly outdated.MarcMarc,I have one. But many have been looking for one for ages. I've seen these in the $500-800 range. Ridiculous.I agree it's old, but the best available on the English Market so far.
Guest Rick Research Posted October 25, 2008 Posted October 25, 2008 How the world has changed! I still remember Igor calling me to sell me one of these when it came out.The Soviet market was such that there was considerable sales resistance to a book "so expensive" ($95 new) when the awards themselves were so cheap and many people still considered them all worthless with no future.I was so giddy and grateful I wrote Mr. McDaniel a fan letter (there was no internet) like a silly girl. How the world has changed!
Christian Zulus Posted October 25, 2008 Posted October 25, 2008 It was published over 11 years ago, and by now is, IMHO, grossly outdated.Dear Marc,o.k., the classification of the different types and variations is outdated by current standards of research, but it is still the best publication on the market in terms of photographic quality and comprehensive (statutes etc.) informations on the awards, I guess.It would be great, to see a 2nd edition of the book in two volumes, which represents the state of the art of research - maybe with some well known experts from Russia as co-authors .Best regards Christian
Ed_Haynes Posted October 25, 2008 Posted October 25, 2008 Is the Paul & Paul book flawed and outdated? Certainly.What else is available in English that is as good? Nothing.The fact that better things are out there, in whatever form, only in Russian is totally irrelevant to many (most?) of us.
NavyFCO Posted October 25, 2008 Posted October 25, 2008 If this sells for this price, I'll definitely put mine up for sale as I haven't touched it in nearly two years. Might as well have the cash than the dust magnet... Dave
seb16trs Posted October 26, 2008 Posted October 26, 2008 Is the Paul & Paul book flawed and outdated? Certainly.What else is available in English that is as good? Nothing.The fact that better things are out there, in whatever form, only in Russian is totally irrelevant to many (most?) of us.Ed, I politely don't agree on this last point.First I started to learn the langage as hard as it can be; secondly I would say everybody can understand the logic classification with associated pictures that Kaufmann and Pak created.We live a kind of war with fakers; so every knowledge must be used...
Ferdinand Posted October 26, 2008 Posted October 26, 2008 I agree with seb16trs. Sources like the Mondvor site, or at least their classifications, are, with the help of a dictionary, understandable for people who don't speak Russian. You can turn to the grossly outdated "Red Bible" instead, but I wouldn't buy it for more that $95. It by far isn't as stunning as it was 11 years ago, so why pay twice the price for it today?
Lapa Posted October 26, 2008 Posted October 26, 2008 I agree with seb16trs. Sources like the Mondvor site, or at least their classifications, are, with the help of a dictionary, understandable for people who don't speak Russian. You can turn to the grossly outdated "Red Bible" instead, but I wouldn't buy it for more that $95. It by far isn't as stunning as it was 11 years ago, so why pay twice the price for it today?+1 :rolleyes:
Guest Darrell Posted October 26, 2008 Posted October 26, 2008 Collectors are a funny bunch (at least some). They'll throw thousands of dollars around to buy elusive items yet complain like the sky is falling over a $10 shipping charge or a book that's $20 over their assumed value :speechless:
seb16trs Posted October 26, 2008 Posted October 26, 2008 (edited) Collectors are a funny bunch (at least some). They'll throw thousands of dollars around to buy elusive items yet complain like the sky is falling over a $10 shipping charge or a book that's $20 over their assumed value I still believe the PMD is THE starter book to buy for a novice collector, before throwing in deep waters of Mondvor classification. Because few books put phaleristics on such precise and scientifical basis. PMD is in my opinion a landmark in phaleristics pedagogy, I never saw equivalent books (maybe in Germany where exhaustive catalogs are a traidtion). Because PMD proposed a classification, examination of mintmarks, of basic fakes, documents. This synthesis is not common in books, or we must look in a jungle of articles and monographies.To penetrate the codified world of medals, it is a kind of exemplary book. Once you read PMD, you can go forward in medals variations following batch numbers, as established by the russian community. It is sure PMD could double the size of his book in a second edition... Edited October 26, 2008 by seb16trs
Christophe Posted October 26, 2008 Posted October 26, 2008 Where would we be (all of us) without the PMD ? For me, it has no price !!!! And, if I was a new collector, I would still buy it, as a starter... The price ? What's a price? Cheers. Ch.PS / I'm happy having got it in 1997. But, at that time, $95 (+ postage...) was a heavy heavy price...
Guest Rick Research Posted October 26, 2008 Posted October 26, 2008 The ironic thing is, this "expensive" reference book for collecting "cheap" medals holds its own and always will at the level where I was priced out of collecting.I'm not worried about the latest characteristics of fake Suvorovs 2nd Class because I will never ever ever have one...I am lucky to still find piles of discarded RVK file photographs, or an occasional nice ribbon bar.I can no longer AFFORD Soviet awards when $15 Red Stars are $250 for no discernable sane reason.So I enjoy (Oh, do I enjoy) what I got when I did...because there aren't going to be any additions to that! I have absolutely NO clue what a BEGINNING collector just NOW getting INTO Soviet would need with any other book EXCEPT this one. I had the advantage of having had Russian in school (the previous time things were... hostile) which gave me an advantage 10 years ago-- at "yard sale" prices. Somebody who cannot read Russian TODAY is in a whole lot of trouble to BEGIN collecting.
Guest Darrell Posted October 26, 2008 Posted October 26, 2008 ......I'm not worried about the latest characteristics of fake Suvorovs 2nd Class because I will never ever ever have one...I am lucky to still find piles of discarded RVK file photographs, or an occasional nice ribbon bar.I can no longer AFFORD Soviet awards when $15 Red Stars are $250 for no discernable sane reason.So I enjoy (Oh, do I enjoy) what I got when I did...because there aren't going to be any additions to that! Rick, I coudn't have said it better myself. While I never got into the game late(er) than most, I managed to grab a decent cross section before things got totally blown out of proportion in the couple of years. With the recent decline in the economy and crash of the Canbuck, I'm delegated to sit on the sidelines, feel comfort in my meagre collection, and marvel at others. The days of buying Russian (and other lines) is almost over for me. It's turned into a Richman's hobby (or business if you will) that has gone way over the heads of us mortals.
JimZ Posted October 27, 2008 Posted October 27, 2008 $179 + frieght for an obsolete book can be considered expensive!!Yes - obsolete because it has been OUTDATED by later "comprehensive" and very lovely Russian publications. On the plus side though it is still good reading and is still informative. But buy it only if you are starting out and want basic general information. Its just obsolete as a real useful collecting tool and will anyways need to be supported by other publications. Iit worth having in your library? - YES!! Just maybe not at that price!
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