Imperial fakes

[Troy Tempest]

Hi Sergio

Can you let me know why it's a fake please? I'm trying to learn about good and bad medal bars, and this thread has been very informative. Does the medal bar have the wrong medals on it, or something else?

[Sergio]

Hi Sergio

Can you let me know why it's a fake please? I'm trying to learn about good and bad medal bars, and this thread has been very informative. Does the medal bar have the wrong medals on it, or something else?

Hello Troy,

Don't you really see the difference? There are the same medal bar in the pictures.

In the post#107 - the original medal bar sold several months ago on eBay.de.

In the post#106 - the Cross of Honor (the second position) was removed from the original medal bar and the SEHO-medal was added on this position.

The lining of the rear side was sewn anew by the faker.

Best regards

Sergio.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Sergio

[Troy Tempest]

Ah yes! Thank you Sergio ;)

[saschaw]

Wow Sergio, very well noticed. It was often me to notice stuff like this, but I apparently slipped this one.

What a moron to destroy a real medal bar...

[redeagleorder]

Not fake per se, but messed up. Must have been a nice non-combatant bar once.

Regards,

Matthew

Edited March 24, 2012 by redeagleorder

[Ulsterman]

well-pretty easy to fix too-hooks on the back?

[redeagleorder]

Hi Ulsterman,

Yeah, the medals are attached with hooks on the back, probably the reason all its medals are missing in the first place. In fact i was thinking of buying it to fix it up, but there seems to be mixed feelings on that type of 'restoration'. But just to know, would the long service medal be a regular one or a landwehr one due to the luitpold medal and the fact that it is non-combatant? And also due to the luitpold medal issued in 1905, assume the long service medal is a 15 year one.....

By the way, as I just realised, should the hindenburg cross be in front, considering that the King Ludwig cross and the War Aid cross were both issued during the war? And would the Luitpold medal be the 'normal' one or the one with the crown on top. To be honest I don't know the difference between the two

Thanks a lot for your time and patience,

Matthew

Edited March 25, 2012 by redeagleorder

[redeagleorder]

Never mind, seller says only postage to Germany

Regards,

Matthew

[Wild Card]

Speaking of (Imperial German) fakes.

Caution! This may make your teeth hurt -

http://princefrederic.com/joomla-us/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=86&Itemid=123

[Troy Tempest]

Sorry, is he not the hereditary Duke of Saxony and Westphalia? Or are the medals all fake? Or both?

[Jason]

I can honestly say its the first time I've ever seen a Pour le Merite mounted on a medal bar!!!

[Hauptmann]

Nor have I. Far as I know that is totally improper. The PLM was "strictly" a neck Order... with the exception of the Breast Star level of the award. No Knights Level worn on a ribbon on the chest. Total fantasy IMHOP. Not to mention the fact that the military Order of the PLM ceased to be the second that Kaiser Wilhelm II abdicted. The Civil Order, created in 1842, was revived in 1952. The last holder of the military PLM, Ernst Jünger died in 1998:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_J%C3%BCnger

It is not a hereditary Order... so he is NOT entitled to it in any way, shape or form.

This guy seems a bit of a nut job. Check out the following for a quick rundown:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Prinz_von_Anhalt

Dan :cheers:

[Troy Tempest]

Hi Dan

Thanks for the tips on the medals, and the links. The one for Ernst Jünger was real interesting, while the other for the ersatz Prinz was also interesting, but for entirely different reasons :speechless:

[Mezzit]

Hi everybody,

As you can probably see, I'm very new to this forum. I'm just starting out collecting imperial german medals (before I used to collect TR), and I wish to collect mostly medal bars as I feel that those really tell the story of a soldier. I am trying to learn how to learn the combinations of good medal bars, so I realise when a medal bar is good and when it is fake. Up till now I know that the order of wear is usually first war medals, then peace medals and finally foreign medals. Bearing that in mind, why is the first medal on the medal bar shown by redeagleorder the hindenburg cross? And redeagleorder, how can you tell that it is a non-combatant if, as you say, all the medals are wrong? Since I am just starting out, can anyone else tell me if there are any other things wrong with this medal bar? And is it original or not? I am asking this to see if I can use as a reference point for future purchases.

I realise this has a lot of questions for a first post, so I am very grateful to anyone who replies. I hope I haven't annoyed you!!!!!!

Thanks,

George

[Mezzit]

By the way i found the item on ebay. Could anyone tell me if the backing is good. I hate pestering further but...... :blush:

Thanks a lot to everyone,

George

[redeagleorder]

Hi Mezzit, and welcome to the forum!

In answer to your question, I know it is non-combatant because the King Ludwig cross and the war aid medal (second and third ribbons respectively) were only given out to non-combatants, such as doctors, etc... The hindenburg cross ribbon could also mean a non-combatant, and the fourth ribbon, the Prinzregent Luitpold medal was also given out to medical officers. A service medal also points towards a doctor. In answer to your order of wear question, I also was curious about that, but if you go into the non-combatant thread (just below this one) you will see that there are examples of the hindenburg cross being placed before the war aid cross.

As to your other questions, I would like to know the answer to them myself!!!! In fact, I would like to add one more!!!! Is he Luitpold medal the bronze one without the crown or the ornate one with the crown???

Mezzit, once again welcome to the forum. Know that asking questions is simply a part of the learning process, and other collectrs are your best sources of information!

Regards,

Matthew

[Schießplatzmeister]

Speaking of (Imperial German) fakes.

Caution! This may make your teeth hurt -

http://princefrederi...d=86&Itemid=123

Hello Wildcard!

A great link! :-) If you notice he has a "shop" on the website. "His" uniform is on sale for the bargain price of USD 160,000. I wonder if "his" Orders are included. What a bargain, I am on my way to the bank now.

Also, on the internet, I found a photo of him in his rollerblade attire shirtless, and wearing a copy of the Order of Albert the Bear (probably in the Grand Cross size) around his neck on a chain. This guy has real class! They must love him in Germany!

Note: I will spare all of you from having to actually view the photo, so I will not re-post it here!

Best regards

[redeagleorder]

The number of fakes on ebay is infinite, but this one stands out particularly

Regards

Matthew

[Troy Tempest]

Hi Matt

Can you educate me as to why this bar is a fake please? Thanks!

[redeagleorder]

Hi Troy,

I based my argument on two main reasons. First of all, the precedence of the medals is completely wrong. The Mecklenburg Military Merit Cross should be first, followed by the 1870 commemorative medal, and finally the 1897 Centenary medal. Even if it is a frackspange (which is read backwards), the precendence is still wrong as the 1897 medal is in the middle.

Secondly, the Mecklenburg MVK is on a non-combatant ribbon. However, the 1870 Commemorative is the bronze-coloured one which was awarded to combatants, and not the steel-coloured one awarded to non-combatants (these two medals also had different ribbons, and the ribbon on this one matches the combatant medal). Therefore, he bar is saying that the man served as a non-combatant during the war, yet after the war he is being classified as a combatant. A bit implausible, no?

I think it is fake simply on those two points, without delving into the medal's look, as well as the form and type of construction of the bar (in which I am no expert).

Regards,

Matthew

[Wild Card]

:whistle: The more I look at it, the more that last ribbon looks like it is for an Oldenburg 1866 or 1870/71 war medal.

[redeagleorder]

Hi Wild Card,

You're right, it could be... . Bu the precedence is still wrong. And i don't know if you've seen the seller, but he is our great friend appollo124.

Regards,

Matthew

[Wild Card]

:speechless: I had not noticed. In that case... I suppose that anything is possible.

:cheers:

[Troy Tempest]

Thank you guys, I appreciate the tips, I still have much to learn about Imperial bars, and this is a big help :cheers:

[saschaw]

Precedence could/would be right for a Prussian wearer...