DDR Grenzflieger

[Paul R]

I want to share with you what I have for the Grenzflieger. I would love to see what you have that is related to this topic!!!

[Paul R]

I want to share with you what I have for the Grenzflieger. I would love to see what you have that is related to this topic!!!

[Snoopy]

Hi Paul

Very interesting uniforms. Do you know what kind of aircraft, they used?

All the best

Snoopy

[Chris Boonzaier]

What is a Grenzflieger?

Best

Chris

[Paul R]

What is a Grenzflieger?

Best

Chris

Hey Chris

Border Guard Aviation units. Here is a nice article on this branch of the East German Border Guard. Just click on the Aviation link on the left.

http://www.grenzer.com/Unitsmain.htm

According to the linked reference, the Grenzflieger had:

* Steinheid: 1 Mi-24D Hind

* Kreuzebra: 1 Mi-TB Hip

* Meiningen: 1 Mi-24D Hind (also deployed in the winter)

Not a seemly large unit in any respect.

[Paul R]

Anyone else have any related items to share?

[ItemCo16527]

I've never seen Grenzflieger uniforms or insignia before. Thanks for posting these, Paul :cheers:

[Paul R]

I've never seen Grenzflieger uniforms or insignia before. Thanks for posting these, Paul

Thanks! I would love to see more!

[nesredep]

I've never seen Grenzflieger uniforms or insignia before. Thanks for posting these, Paul

Hello!

I agree.

All the best

Nesredep

[TurkDostu]

Hi guys, I'm new to the site. I used to own a Grenzflieger officer's tunic and visor, but one thing that's always bothered me about this stuff is the fact that I've never seen period photos of actual Grenzflieger personnel wearing these uniforms and hats.

Sure, I've seen photos of Grenztruppen personnel in the field working with helicopters of various kinds, but they're always decked out in battle dress. It seems to me that it would be no problem at all to combine pieces of a Grenztruppen visor hat and an LSK visor hat and make a "Grenzflieger" hat. The only Grenzflieger tunics or hats I've ever seen were nice, brand-new, unissued specimens sold here in the States, which brings me to another reason why I'm suspicious-- has anybody seen any used Grenzflieger gear, or directly obtained any from actual former Grenzflieger personnel? I haven't.

And if I recall correctly, there are no illustrations of Grenzflieger uniforms, hats, or insignia in Keubke's 'Uniformen der Nationalen Volksarmee der DDR 1956-1986', nor has there been any depiction of Grenzflieger tunics or hats in any other uniform chart that I'm familiar with including those in the 'Handbuch der Milit?risches Grundwissen'. This seems very odd to me, unless the existence of the Grenzflieger was a state secret at the time, which I don't think it was.

Can anybody explain why I've never seen photos or illustrations of this gear that are from the GDR era? The lack of period photos could be explained by the fact that it was a relatively small unit, and perhaps its members were cautioned to avoid being photographed, but there should still be relevant illustrations in in uniform books and/or charts no?

Any clarification would be appreciated. Thanks guys.

[Paul R]

Hi guys, I'm new to the site. I used to own a Grenzflieger officer's tunic and visor, but one thing that's always bothered me about this stuff is the fact that I've never seen period photos of actual Grenzflieger personnel wearing these uniforms and hats.

Sure, I've seen photos of Grenztruppen personnel in the field working with helicopters of various kinds, but they're always decked out in battle dress. It seems to me that it would be no problem at all to combine pieces of a Grenztruppen visor hat and an LSK visor hat and make a "Grenzflieger" hat. The only Grenzflieger tunics or hats I've ever seen were nice, brand-new, unissued specimens sold here in the States, which brings me to another reason why I'm suspicious-- has anybody seen any used Grenzflieger gear, or directly obtained any from actual former Grenzflieger personnel? I haven't.

And if I recall correctly, there are no illustrations of Grenzflieger uniforms, hats, or insignia in Keubke's 'Uniformen der Nationalen Volksarmee der DDR 1956-1986', nor has there been any depiction of Grenzflieger tunics or hats in any other uniform chart that I'm familiar with including those in the 'Handbuch der Milit?risches Grundwissen'. This seems very odd to me, unless the existence of the Grenzflieger was a state secret at the time, which I don't think it was.

Can anybody explain why I've never seen photos or illustrations of this gear that are from the GDR era? The lack of period photos could be explained by the fact that it was a relatively small unit, and perhaps its members were cautioned to avoid being photographed, but there should still be relevant illustrations in in uniform books and/or charts no?

Any clarification would be appreciated. Thanks guys.

Hi! Welcome to the GMIC!

I am away from my books, but I thought that I did see some drawings in one of the DDR publications. I would be skeptical myself, but the key manufactured component that makes me feel at ease about their existance is the collar tab.

There is a little blurb on them here:

http://www.grenzer.com/Unitsmain.htm

There is an image of the hat, but not in photo.

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

Turkdostu makes an interesting point. There is one thing that we can be sure of. All NVA uniformed personel received a dress uniform. Since many period photos are in black and white it would be difficult to tell a person wearing a Grenzflieger dress uniform from someone wearing a Luftsreitkrafte uniform if the cuffband were not visible. The only comment I have in my reference books re Grenzflieger wearing Luftstreitkafte emblems on a Grenzer uniform comes from Zoller's book "KOPFBEDECKUNGEN milit?rische uniformierter Organizationen in Europa - DEUTSCHE DEMOKRATISCHE REPUBLIK 1945 - 1990" page 94. In relation to the Grenzfleiger visor cap illustrated in his books he says that from their creation until 1986 Grenzflieger wore Luftstrietkrafte uniforms. From then on they wore Grenzer uniforms with Luftstreitkrafe emblems. I have no secondary source to support his statement. If true, the short length of time this particular uniform/emblem combimation was worn could help explain why no period photos have come to light of Grenzflieger wearing Luftstrietkrafte emblems on Grenzer uniforms.

Regards,

Gordon

[Paul R]

Gentlemen,

Turkdostu makes an interesting point. There is one thing that we can be sure of. All NVA uniformed personel received a dress uniform. Since many period photos are in black and white it would be difficult to tell a person wearing a Grenzflieger dress uniform from someone wearing a Luftsreitkrafte uniform if the cuffband were not visible. The only comment I have in my reference books re Grenzflieger wearing Luftstreitkafte emblems on a Grenzer uniform comes from Zoller's book "KOPFBEDECKUNGEN milit?rische uniformierter Organizationen in Europa - DEUTSCHE DEMOKRATISCHE REPUBLIK 1945 - 1990" page 94. In relation to the Grenzfleiger visor cap illustrated in his books he says that from their creation until 1986 Grenzflieger wore Luftstrietkrafte uniforms. From then on they wore Grenzer uniforms with Luftstreitkrafe emblems. I have no secondary source to support his statement. If true, the short length of time this particular uniform/emblem combimation was worn could help explain why no period photos have come to light of Grenzflieger wearing Luftstrietkrafte emblems on Grenzer uniforms.

Regards,

Gordon

I agree! That is a very interesting point. Somewhere out there, there are plenty of real photos... It is irritating that such a modern organization has so few photo documentation. Heck, their vets are my age! There have to be plenty of vets still have their tunics and photos. I am surprised that there is no photographic documentation of this formation.

[Grenzflieger]

Hello Gentlemen,

I'm new to this forum. Some the names I've seen on this forum sound familiar to me because I'm also active on the Wehrmacht-Awards-forum. I came across this very interesting topic and wanted to show you my grenzflieger uniforms as well. They are my favorite part of collecting (nexto volksmarine) but the uniforms are hard to get and easily to forge. It's frustrating indeed that there are almost no pictures of grenzfliegers.

I was wondering (because of the fact that the grenzflieger units were part of the LuSK) if it could have been possible that some personel of the Grenzflieger units wore paper ribbon bars of the NVA instead of the GT?

Some pictures of my collection:

Here is a Grenzflieger Fähnrich. Please don't look at the wrong belt (brass buckle) and the interimspange.

Here is a Senior Officer also with a wrong interimspange and belt.

Last one.. (bought at Gowen Militaria)

[Paul R]

Hi Grenzflieger! It is great to see you here!

Those are some beautiful uniforms. IS there a way to determine if an example is assembled or the real thing? Are the liner stamps the NVA type?

[Grenzflieger]

Hi Grenzflieger! It is great to see you here!

Those are some beautiful uniforms. IS there a way to determine if an example is assembled or the real thing? Are the liner stamps the NVA type?

Hi Paul, excuse me for my late respons! It's hard to determinate if the jackets are assembled or the real thing. The liner stamps are the nva type. You just can't be sure. Only bad signal you can get is when there are traces of regular collar tabs besides that there is no difference with a normal grenztruppen jacket. This is not the case with the visor. A original grenzflieger visor is hard to get. If you've got one it's usually assembled which can be detected by the holes that were made for the normal nva cockarde. The holes that are needed for the wings cockarde are on a different spot. My visor is a fake but I'm pretty convinced the jackets are real.

Greetings

[Paul R]

Thank you for the advice! These are pretty tricky indeed. It is a good thing that the insignia is rare as well!

[seb16trs]

hello, do you know pictures of these uniforms actually worn?

[Grenzflieger]

hello, do you know pictures of these uniforms actually worn?

As far as I know there are none. I have been looking for these pictures for years. I have never found them. Though there are some pictures of the Grenzflieger in FDA (BDU? in the usa)

[Paul R]

Are there any more examples out there?