Officer to identify please ! (Dr. Wilhelm Wehner)

[Deruelle]

Hi everybody,

I have got one photo and want to identify the owner. Please can someone help me. I think this officer is from Hesse but who it is is another question.

I appreciate any help to identify this officer. :food-smiley-004:

Regards

Christophe

[Guest Rick Research]

What rank and branch is he wearing for a uniform?

That is a drop dead gorgeous medal bar:

Order of the Star of Brabant (a 1914 creation never even shown in Rank Lists), 1905 Wedding Jubilee medal (not shown either), Bavarian Order of Saint Michael, Baden Z?hringen Lion Order, ? can't tell what the medal is, and Russian Order of Saint Anne.

I'm amazed ther is no "normal" Order of Philip the Generous, nor a Reserve-Landwehr medal!

[Deruelle]

Hi Rick,

Please find the whole photo of this Hessian officer. Tell me what do you thing about ?

Regards

Christophe

[Guest Rick Research]

He doesn't have a Landwehr cockade on his cap, which implies he is active duty.

I cannot make out what his SHOULDER BOARD is-- rank of hauptmann, but are there numbers on there?

[Stogieman]

Those are some seriously nasty facial wounds he has there.... I had a CDV of a Saxon Doctor with similar facial wounds once... I cannot imagine what these guys went through.

[Deruelle]

Hi RickL and Rick S,

I have made a better scan of the shoulderboards. Tell me if it will be ok. it is the best I can do with my scan. I will post the signature. I hope it will help you. I can't decypher it

Thanks a lot for your help

For Rick S, I have read that when the german were students they were playing to sabers duels. The scars on the face are very appreciate it is a mark of honor. And the young women loved students with scars on the face. We are so lucky this day that this tradition is being obsolet

Regards

Christophe

[Deruelle]

The signature

[Guest Rick Research]

Nnnnn... I can't tell if there is a two digit number there "4X" between the Hauptmann pips... or nothing at all.

The signature is that of the photographer, "von Gro?"-- stamped below. He apparently autographed photos he made himself. Too bad this went for the Romantic Soft Focus jnstead of sharply focussed. This will be tough!!!!!

[Deruelle]

Many thanks Rick for your help

Regards

Christophe

[Deruelle]

Hello,

I have already posted this photo several years ago. And no names appeared.

Like the research grows everyday. I think it's time to show it again.

Thanks for your help

Christophe

Edited May 21, 2009 by Deruelle

[Deruelle]

The signature is not the clue, it's the name of the photograph.

Here is a close up of the medal bar.

[Deruelle]

Close up of the shoulderboards.

Seems to be a "4" and a "3".

Christophe

[saschaw]

Great picture and odd to see an officer still wear his RA3 in 1917... or does he wear him "again", after Brest-Litowsk?

What is that medal in #5?!

No name from me, sorry.

[Ulsterman]

Bloody Heck!! That's photo! The Brabant -amazing!!!! :Cat-Scratch:

[Kurt Donch]

While I have no name, I would suggest the scars on his left cheek are "Schmisse" (student duelling scars) and not wounds. If so, this would make him a Reserve officer and not a career military.

Best regards,

Kurt

[Henry 24th]

Great Photo!

Unfortunately I don't have a name for him either. The three fencing scars on his left cheek are brilliant!

Definitely not war wounds. Perhaps he was a Heidelberg University grad?

H

[Claudius]

WOW. That bar! With the Brabant in first place no less! No wonder why you want to identify him.

I think we would all like to get our hands on that bar.

I can't make out #3, is that supose to be the Bav. St. Michael? And #6, is that a Russian St. Anne's?

[saschaw]

I can't make out #3, is that supose to be the Bav. St. Michael? And #6, is that a Russian St. Anne's?

Absolutely right. The Saint Michael has to be 4th class as it has no crown, while the Order of Saint Anne is 3rd class. No way to tell what the Z?hringer is... well, actually it should be a Knight's cross 2nd class as he's still a Hauptmann and Knight's 1st class were give to Hauptleute, but who knows with Reserve/Landwehr guys...

[Guest Rick Research]

I can't match any Hessian unit to "43" yet he is as Hessian as Hessian gets.

While I have the less than reliably edited Hessian Orders List for 1914 (actually 1913) that was BEFORE the Brabant's creation.It does NOT list recipents of the weird looking 1905 Wedding Medal, which is the only other Hessian thing he's wearing.

What we need, desperately, is a nice early war Hessian Hof und Staats Handbuch showing peacetime awards.

Notice that he's got nothing from Hesse for the war-- EK1 but no Hessian Bravery Medal...

I suspect that is a circa June 1914 medal bar he's simply wearing in 1917-- which would mean he was among the first of the very few recipients of the Brabant before wandering off into "43" for the war.

My gut instinct is he was NOT a civil servant, but some sort of Komnmerzienrat or Hoflieferant-- in other words, a businessman with Court connections. The Bavarian and Russian Orders SHOULD be enough to find him in the 1914 Prussian Rank List IF he was indeed still "active reserve" then and NOT already retired.

What is the medal in next to last position? I am FAIRLY sure that it is the Baden 1902 Jubilee Medal. Reemmebre the weird spectrum shift in old photographic processes makes yellow come out dark. This is over-exposed and blurry as well, but I think I see the "notch" behind Friedrich's neck and his draped overcoat collar there.

So, a Hessian with ties to the Court of Baden....

[medalnet]

Amazing, this is the second only contemporary picture showing a Star of Brabant recipient (knight seond class). Thanks for sharing. :speechless1:

[Wild Card]

This has to be one of the most unique and, I am sure, visually beautiful bars that I have ever seen.

Imagine what the real thing looks (looked? ) like! :jumping:

[Deruelle]

Hi

Many thanks to all for your comments

Rick, o you think I can make some research in Prussian Hof und Staat RL 1918 ? If you think there is a chance, I will do the job.

A stupid question, is it possible to find him with Almanach 1918 ?

Christophe

[Guest Rick Research]

How about this? I went downstairs into the dungeon and put my hands right on him.

Say hello to Oberleutnant der Landwehr I Infanterie WEHNER

He's been there all along. His LD2 was the old brooch type, and for whatever reason he mustn't have updated it to the M1913 medal when he got his Brabant in 1914... and he's not wearing the ugly brooch LD2 next to his 1914 EK1.

I've been through ALL my other sources and find nothing on him anywhere.

He was not listed in the Milit?r Wochenblatt in 1915 or the first half of 1916 for his promotion to Hauptmann in "49"-- finding THAT will CONFIRM this absolutely. I suspect "49" rather than "43" is what's on his boards-- from the brigade number.

Glenn's away this week, and don't know how much further in his Herculean labours he's gotten to in indexing the wartime MWBs. But staaaaaaaaay tuned-- we're CLOSE now.

Wehner had no Orders in 1909. My 1910 and 1911 Rank Lists are away being scanned. In 1912 he had the BZ3b and RA3. His BM4b was awarded between the 1913 and 1914 editions. I always find him in the Landwehr in Darmstadt so apprently never dR, always dL.

If only there were pre-war PEACETIME awards rolls gnomes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Deruelle]

INCREDIBLE

THANKS A LOT RICK

Christophe

[webr55]

Wow - what an amazing photo - and what amazing research!!