Stogieman Posted January 12, 2006 Posted January 12, 2006 Bavarian Bar is probably real.......... The second bar with the Godet Label is NOT!!Who can tell me why???No, and I don't care what certain people on certain other forums are saying. The Godet Bar is not possible..........Who can tell me Why??Rick Research is recused from responding for 24 hours.....Now, tell me why it's bad???
Steve K. Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Whoa! How many states are represented? Let's count.....
Stogieman Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Nope, that's an Officer Bar....... the different states is not the issue..
CHRIS W Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Being a Prussian bar shouldn't the Prussian orders be placed ahead of the other states?Chris
Stogieman Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Nope. Mounting precedence is fine for Prussian.
VtwinVince Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 I've never seen a bar with two pins on the back.
Les Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 This it? With ribbon bars, the Godet pin closure looks considerably different, and medals bars if mounted the same way, shouldn't have either the double pins Vince mentioned, or even the style of pin this bar has on it. If it's not a "Godet type" pin/closure, ergo, not a Godet bar, and the label sewn on isn't original to the bar.Xxx(The guy with only -one- medal bar in his entire collection, and that bar has only one medal on it...a parade mounted "Hindenburg."
Stogieman Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Nope........... look at the awards............
VtwinVince Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Okay, now I'm just wildly flailing, but the ribbons look way too fresh to me, and the 938 mark on the HHO seems strange.
Stogieman Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Nope. HHORKwX is a fine and correct (original) piece by Godet.
Steve K. Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) Friedrich order is kinda low grade (or odd precedence) for this officer..........(still...need...baby steps!) Edited January 13, 2006 by Steve K.
Stogieman Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 oooooooooooo Steve K. is warm, very warm........ almost making me sweat!But Why?What else combines with the Friedrich Order RK2wX that makes this an impossible combination? Why is the combination impossible?Yes, there are other issues here:Two pins? hmmmmmNeithor looks like a Godet pin? hmmmmPINKY-red backing cloth on a Godet bar? really?Straight bottom ribbons mounted by Godet?? Show me more?These issues are all important, but not outside the realm of reality....The KEY is the WFORK2wX and one other award.......... which one?Why?Since the mounting looks flawless and there's absolutely no indication that anything has been altered and/or changed since this bar was made (but when was it made? 1935? 2000?) we have to assume the bar was made this way with one glaringly important error!Now, don't feel bad.... it's so simple even I missed it at first...... No more clues tonight!
Guest Rick Research Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Recused! Hey!!! Ain't I supposeta do that MYSELF, then? "A Medal Bar Is A Book. Read The Chapters." Always too greedy they are. Enough alone they cannot ever leave. So is it with the Dark Side always.[attachmentid=22609]
Schießplatzmeister Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Hello everyone:The "Godet" group is definately relatively recently assembled. If you note the edging on the W?rttemberg Friedrich Order Knight 2nd w/ swords ribbon, you will see an edging that is modern and was never used for German ribbons prior to 1945. It is akin to the edging seen on modern US ribbons (forgive me, as I am not a textile expert, and don't have the proper term to describe it!). The ribbons for the whole group look to be nylon and probably would glow nicely under UV light. The HHO w/ swords has the sword parts RIVITED to the wreaths. Wagner pieces were not done this way, nor were those made by other manufacturers during and immediately after WWI (as far as I am aware). The badge may have been made by Godet, but is certainly a later-made piece, rather than an earlier piece in my opinion. I am still puzzled over what Rick is alluding to as improper combination-wise, but will guess that the W?rttemberg Order was too low-level an award to go with the HHO which would have been awarded to a more senior officer (I don't have access to my library right now and can't verify this, and my failing memory can't recall!).Thanks,Schie?platzmeister
David Gregory Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 The HHO w/ swords has the sword parts RIVITED to the wreaths. Wagner pieces were not done this way, nor were those made by other manufacturers during and immediately after WWI (as far as I am aware).As far as I am aware, these pieces are deemed to be good. I was told that unused stocks of crosses without swords were modified by having swords added to them ca. 1916 so that they could be issued to meet rising demand as the war progressed.
webr55 Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Look, Rick's point is quite simple: What peacetime decorations has he got? What does that imply??
Stogieman Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 OK, now if Steve K. & webr55 were to get together to have tea, what would they discuss about their 2 points?
Sal Williams Posted January 13, 2006 Author Posted January 13, 2006 OK, now if Steve K. & webr55 were to get together to have tea, what would they discuss about their 2 points?Those sissy tea drinkers! What do they think they are English ???Same seller:attachment.php.jpg
Schießplatzmeister Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 "As far as I am aware, these pieces are deemed to be good. I was told that unused stocks of crosses without swords were modified by having swords added to them ca. 1916 so that they could be issued to meet rising demand as the war progressed."Hello again:This is an excellent point and something that I was not aware of. But it leads me to a question. Why then is the badge not made of gold since it is of pre-1916 Godet stock without swords, which was modified in 1916 with swords? The piece in the group is obviously a silver-gilt badge judging from the photo (I would understand a gold badge with silver-gilt swords).Thanks,Schie?platzmeister
David Gregory Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 "As far as I am aware, these pieces are deemed to be good. I was told that unused stocks of crosses without swords were modified by having swords added to them ca. 1916 so that they could be issued to meet rising demand as the war progressed."Hello again:This is an excellent point and something that I was not aware of. But it leads me to a question. Why then is the badge not made of gold since it is of pre-1916 Godet stock without swords, which was modified in 1916 with swords? The piece in the group is obviously a silver-gilt badge judging from the photo (I would understand a gold badge with silver-gilt swords).Thanks,Schie?platzmeisterHi Schie?platzmeister,The same point has been raised before. I'm afraid I cannot answer that as I simply do not know. I have one which has been given tacit approval by a few members here and elsewhere and the two others that I have seen in hand were identical, except for wear. According to the dealer and seller, two others that were sold in the last year on a German dealer site and eBay.de, respectively, were also the same. However, I can only go by what the sellers told me when I asked about them.Whether the 1916 date is precise or merely educated speculation remains to be answered by someone with more experience of them. Together with some other HHOXs mentioned earlier in the thread, it was shown at http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2613&hl=HHOX&st=160Sorry to confuse matters, but that is all I have on this cross with its rivetted swords.I suspect Andreas (medalnet) might be able to shed some more light on this.As far as the suspect bar above is concerned, what is the clash between the W?rttemberg cross and the Red Eagle Order and/or Centenary medal, or is Stogieman referring to something else?David
Stogieman Posted January 13, 2006 Posted January 13, 2006 Let me interject. I believe every individual piece on the bar to be authentic. But the bar is not. Why?
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