French Victory Medals

[RobW]

To all,

In both editions of the late Mr Alexander Laslo's book on victory medals 'The Interallied Victory Medals of World War 1 (Ed 1, 1986) (Ed 2, 1992) reference is made to a French reproduction of the Portugal vic.

The details provided in those references are:

Portugal-Reproduction Type 2

"Has anybody ever seen such a variety, or have an example in their collection?" If any collector has such an example it would be appreciated if you could confirm or clarify the existence of this variety, or post a pic for reference.

Regards,

Rob

Hello all,

Given the lack of any response to this query I can assume that no-one has seen such an example?

Regards,

Rob

[Thomas Symmonds]

I managed to win this "Original Victory Certificate - French" at one of the on line auctions - Neate Auctions to be exact. I am very taken with it and am in the process of making a frame to take both it and the medal that accompanied it.

They were awarded to a Sergeant Emile Roubard on 9 March 1929. If any member can make a full translation for me I would greatly appreciate it.

Edited February 18, 2013 by IrishGunner

[RobW]

I managed to win this "Original Victory Certificate - French" at one of the on line auctions...If any member can make a full translation for me I would greatly appreciate it.

Hello Thomas,

The text in the centre is:

Named individual...

'est autorisé a porter la MÉDAILLE DE LA VICTOIRE (ruban aux coleurs de denx arcs-en-ciel juxtaposes par le rouge avec un filet blanc sur chaque bord)'

My French is not too good but that is roughly translated to:

'Named individual... is authorised to wear the victory medal (ribbon has the colours of the rainbow with a centre red stripe with a white stripe on the edge).

Of note at the bottom of the award certificate is a small footnote:

'Nota. - Par application des dispositions de l'article 13 de la loi du 20 juillet 1922, il n'est pas délivré de diplome et il appartient aux ayants droit de se procurer l'insigne a leurs frais, dans le commerce'

Roughly translated again this indicates...In accordance with item 13 of the law of July 20, 1922 [which established the French vic] the diploma merely gives you the right to wear the award but the individual had to go out and purchase the actual medal at their own expense.

This is not that unusual. Those eligible and awarded the diploma had to obtain the actual medal themselves from any one of the different medal manufacturers that were in the market, and was not limited to just the vic. There are many that believe it is the award certificate that is the important piece because it is individual where the medal is produced by many.

Here is another certificate so others can see the detail.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Rob

Edited May 23, 2010 by RobW

[Noor]

Here is some of my new ribbon bars, with the Victory Medals from different countries.

1. French officer ribbon bar

[RobW]

To all,

Here is a recent pickup. This is one of my nicest French mini groups consisting of:

* Médaille Militaire, 1870-1951 issue

* Croix de Guerre (1914-1918 reverse)

* War Combatant Cross (Paris mint variety with cornucopia mark and BR on the reverse)

* Vic (13mm)

* War Commemorative Medal

* Medal for Syria-Cilicia and Levant mounted on the Médaille d´ Orient ribbon

* Serbia Commemorative Cross for the War of Liberation and Union, 1914-1918

The nice elements about this group are that the Médaille Militaire is of multi-part construction and the very attractive ribbon bar with panels of roses and wreaths on the top.

Also interesting about this group is the fact that the Levant medal is mounted on the Medal for the East ribbon. The Levant and East (Salonika) medals are almost identical except for the wording on the reverse. The ribbon and the adjacent Serbian medal suggest that this Levant medal is a replacement for an East medal but it is also possible that the recipient moved on from Serbia to the new French mandates in the Middle East (Syria and Lebanon) after the war and it was mistakenly ribboned.

Either way it is a very nice and complete group showing long and interesting service. It is these departures from the norm, found in such mini medal groups, that make vics such a rich collecting field.

Regards,

Rob

Edited August 14, 2010 by RobW

[RobW]

To all,

Things seem a bit quiet around here at the moment.

Here is a nicely detailed later issue French vic mini. It is part of a larger group of 9 which includes an Orient medal, Verdun (Vernier model) and Wound medal.

The vic is quite detailed given its small diameter of 11.7 mm and it even has the Paris Mint cornucopia mark and BR on the reverse. The accompanying Combattant Cross and Commemorative War medal also have the Paris mint cornucopia and BR marks.

It would be good if other vic collectors could also post their mini's as they are as much an interesting collecting field as their full size counterparts.

Close-ups to follow.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

And here are the close-ups.

While it is difficult to tell from the scan, the designers mark of 'A. Morlon' is present in the correct location, on the lower right rim of the obverse. Such detail on a mini that is only 11.7 mm in diameter, shows a very good level of workmanship.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

And here is the group of mini's in question.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

To all,

Here is a French vic related item of note. I recently obtained this nice set of 3 medals complete with its own box. It is a plain blue cardboard box with dividers. Simple yet effective. While I have seen many individually boxed vics, and other period French medals in their plain red or blue boxes, I had not seen such a combined box set up before.

The medals have their original attachments pins and the following makers marks:

* Commemorative War Medal - Paul Leclére

* Vic - Paris Mint

* Combatant Cross - Janvier Berchot

Of note is that the vic has the same very fragile ribbon that is generally seen on the official Greek vic that was produced and distributed in the green box of Victor Canale, Paris. This boxed set of 3 would be dated sometime in the early 1930s due to the presence of the Croix du Combattant (instituted 28 June 1930).

Close-ups of the medals to follow.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

Close-ups of the medals. The Croix du Combattant has the very defined strike characteristic of JB manufacture.

Regards,

Rob

[Tim B]

Hi Rob,

Nice trio!

Do you suspect the box came issued with the three medals like this, or that someone placed them with the dividers into one cardboard container? Never seen this before like this. I have a US WW2 medal bar in a cardboard case similar with a plastic covering and name of the manufacturer on it, though I never could say 100% this was not a make up. Interesting.

Yes, the VIC ribbon looks the same style as the one on my Romanian Vic and as you stated before, quite fragile. Nice set!

Tim

[RobW]

Hi Rob,

Nice trio!

Do you suspect the box came issued with the three medals like this, or that someone placed them with the dividers into one cardboard container? Never seen this before like this... Interesting.

Tim

Hello Tim,

Yes I believe that the box is a period piece for this set of three.

The tops of the dividers are glued in to the box so can't move too much. There are consistent wear marks on the box which is of the correct pattern and style for that produced by the many French medal manufacturers of the time. There are marks showing the distinct outlines of all three medals on the bottom of the box which corresponds with all three medals.

When I inquired with the vendor he indicated that there were a few manufacturers that put out this form of boxed set, generally in the period of the early 1930s.

I am satisfied that it is a period piece and not a put together set.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

To all,

Here is a nice French victory medal award certificate to a member of the 218e Régiment d'Infanterie. The 218th Infantry Regiment was originally constituted in 1914 and was awarded the battle honours 'VERDUN 1916' and 'AISNE 1917' to be placed on the regimental colours. It was dissolved in 1917.

What is interesting about this award certificate is that it also indicates the gentleman's entitlement to both the Croix de Guerre, and Medaille Militaire. These certificates are often seen framed with the relevant medals attached and dated although in this case there is no date. Measurements are: 40 cms x 30 cms. I particularly like the attractiveness of the certificate as a whole.

In some collecting areas it is the actual award certificate and not the medal that is the collectible piece.

Regards,

Rob

Edited January 5, 2011 by RobW

[Herman]

My French VM's.

An official type - Morlon, an unofficial type 1 – Charles / Chobillon with the Chobillon marking and marked BRONZE in the rim. The third one is an unofficial type 2 – Pautot / Mattei, also marked BRONZE.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Here is a preliminary award document..

[Tim B]

Thanks for posting that Chris!

We just do not see many of these documents, including the Brevets that were issued. Nice addition!

Tim

[Bilco]

Hi Gents,

Just found this French phaleristic web site which gives the criteria for the award of the French vic http://www.medailles1914-1918.fr/france-interalla.html Also many other French medals.

Bill

Edited February 17, 2013 by Bilco

[Tim B]

Hi Bill,

Yes, the guy has a nice site (French language only) and I understand is very knowledgeable on French awards. If you search through his pages, he even breaks down the various units and what awards they were entitled to. I used to use his site just for the information on fourrageres!

Tim

[Bilco]

My latest acquisition via e-bay - the Unofficial Type 1 French vic by Charles. Herewith the usual photos:

Looks like the original ribbon with the ball-ended bar mount.

Obverse

Reverse.

The 'BRONZE' and Chobillon triangular mark are on the rim, so it looks OK to me - any comments welcome.

Bill

[lambert]

Hi Bilco.

I saw this item on ebay, I was in my plans to buy it .. but I lost the time of end of auction. . more luck for me next time.

It is a difficult item to appear. and I think the coolest official type.

Great purchase. !

For that looks amazing I have not got the Vic's French and Italian. !!

Lambert

:cheers:

[Bilco]

Hi Lambert - commiserations - I've lost out on several nice medals on e-bay because of last-minute fumbles and stumbles. I guess I have about a 50% success rate so far. I lost out on a similar French vic a few weeks ago, although it went for more so I shouldn't complain. At least we know that I won't be in competition with you for the next one that appears!

Bill

[Bilco]

This month's acquisition - the Unofficial Type 2 Pautot/Mattei:

Overall view - clean ribbon - original?

Obverse - very clean and sharp, and lighter in tone than my other 2 types.

Reverse

The impressed BRONZE marking high on the edge of the planchet. It's difficult to see but there is a mark before BRONZE that looks like 2 circles overlapping.

Any comments welcome!

Bill

Edited August 27, 2011 by Bilco

[lambert]

Hi Bilco

This in an excellent condition! but the Ribbon is original and very well preserved.

I like that metal bar in the presentation of medals French and Belgians.

Soon I get my Vic French (from France) I will show photos.

Lambert

:cheers:

[Bilco]

As well as the Unofficial Type 2 medal the packaging it arrived in from France also contained this little item:

It's a small piece of the ribbon, covered in some sort of clear film, and mounted on another of the barettes. Is this part of the original medal issue, meant to be worn on the uniform when the full medal isn't? I nearly throw the packaging away with it still inside, having extracted the medal!

Bill

[Bilco]

Hi Gents,

Recently came across this site that is new to me http://www.medailles1914-1918.fr/francemedailledb.html

It has some interesting information on the Pautot/Mattei type, and covers much more than the Victory medals of the Allies.

May be of interest.

Bill