6 place medal bar with its miniatures

[Claudio]

Dear Forumites,

Here a recent aquisition; I don't think that the name of the owner will be researchable, though.

Description of the medals:

Medaillen

• Preußen, Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse, 1914 (OEK 1909), E/S
  
• Preußen, Centenar-Medaille 1897 (OEK 1965)
  
• Sachsen-Meiningen, Ehrenzeichen für Verdienst im Kriege am Kämpferband 1915-1917 (OEK 2717) Br ox
  
• Reuß Ältere und Jüngere Linie gemeinsam, Fürstlich Reußisches Ehrenkreuz 1909-1918 (OEK 2001/1), Gold
  
• Schwarzburg-Sonderhausen, Fürstlich Schwarzburgisches Ehrenzeichen, Kreuz 3. Klasse mit Schwertern 1870-1918 (OEK 2785) S/Sv
  
• Deutscher Reichskriegsbund „Kyffhäuser“, Kriegsdenkmünze 1914/18 (DN 2.02.34a+b)
  

Miniaturkette

• Wie oben passendes Miniaturenkettchen mit dem Frontkämpferehrenkreuz statt der Kyffhäuser Kriegdenkmünze
  

Ciao,

Claudio

Edited August 13, 2011 by Claudio

[Claudio]

Pic of the back...

Some of you might have already seen this bar before... :whistle:

[Dave Danner]

I can't be completely sure, but my best guess would be a recalled active officer. Recalled, because of the Centenary and no other prewar decorations, and formerly active, so no LD1 or LD2.

Someone like, perhaps...

Wolf Wölfel

- Leutnant, IR 163, on 18 August 1896 (F10f)

- left active duty as an Oberleutnant in late 1906 or early 1907 (per the the 1907 ranklist)

- recalled in World War I as an Oberleutnant a.D. (Mühlhausen i.Th.)

- promoted to Hauptmann a.D. on 27 January 1915, at the time in the I.Ersatz-Bataillon of IR 32

- Herzoglich Sachsen-Meiningsches Ehrenkreuz für Verdienst im Kriege, 2 September 1915

- Fürstlich Schwarzburgisches Ehrenkreuz 3. Klasse mit Schwertern, 31 January 1917 (Hptm.a.D., 2. Ldst.-Inf.-Btl. Gera XI/25, früher b. Ldst.Halb.B Sondershausen)

Since there are apparently no surviving Reuss rolls, there is no way to confirm that award, but the Gera Landsturm battalion connection helps. He apparently served from 1896 to 1906 or so (10 years) and from 1914 to 1918 (4x2=8), so in service for the Centenary Medal but not enough for the long service cross.

None of the other SMK/SEK3X combinations seem likely. They are mostly younger Leutnants der Reserve or can be ruled out because they had had other known awards. One other less likely possibility is Hauptmann d.L. a.D.Alexis Voelker. He served initially with RFAR 46, then received the SEK3X on 24 July 1915 as technischer Leiter der Betriebsabteilung III des Kriegsbekleidungsamts IX.A.K. Altona, and the SMK as a Bahnhofskommandant on 28 September 1916. But a Hauptmann der Landwehr should have had at least an LD2, and there is also no obvious Reuss connection.

Regards,

Dave

Edited August 14, 2011 by Dave Danner

[Claudio]

Wow, thanks a lot Dave... even if this soldiers' medals can not be confirmed 100%, I never thought that it could be possible to find any recipient of these medals! The fact that both Meiningen's and Schwarzburg's could narrow down the research so much, it's great! Did you get this information from the Rangliste of the RFAR 46?

ciao, Claudio

[Claudio]

I found this, searching on the net: http://www.ww2daggers.com/catalogue/weapons/imperial/army/19600.htm

A sword given as present from Obltn (here in the text as Hptm "captain" mentioned) Wölfel to his comrade and Paymaster Georg Krommes.

Text:

Presentation M89 Infantry Degen w/Deluxe Hilt. No maker. Although unmarked, an illustration of the blade etch appears in the WKC Imperial sales catalog as etch pattern Nr. 15. Gilted brass hilt fittings show light surface wear to heavily-chiseled pommel, knuckle-bow and non-folding handguard, which features the Imperial eagle with raised “WRII” cypher on chest. Fittings retain much gilting throughout, to include the ornate pommel which features a raised silver facsimile of Kaiser Wilhelm. Dark brown, bakelite grip shows light surface wear with no cracks or chips and is complete with tight triple wire-wrap. Grip is complete with Imperial “WRII” cypher pinned to the obverse. Plated, double-etched blade measuring 30 ¼” in length grades excellent, showing light surface wear with some gray speckling but no nicks to cutting edge. Obverse blade features gilted floral panels at each end of a 9 ½” presentation panel featuring the following inscription, “Hauptmann Wolf Wölfel Seinem Freunde U.-Zahlmeister Georg Krommes. Kriegsyar 1915/1916” (Captain Wolf Wölfel to his friend and paymaster, Georg Krommes, war year 1915-1916). Reverse blade features gilted floral panels on each end of an 8 ¼” long panel featuring the following inscription, “II. Landst. Inf.-Ers. Halb.-Bat. Sondershausen.” (Sondershausen is located north of Erfurt). Spine of blade features gold filled oak leaf design, is distributor marked, “Deutscher Offizier Verein, Berlin”, and is complete with brown leather blade buffer pad. Straight, dent-free steel scabbard retains approximately 85% of its original black enamel which shows surface crazing and wear to paint, particularly, near the tip and frog of scabbard. Sword is complete with ranklist documentation from the 1914-1918 Honor ranklist of the German Army with the entry for Captain Wölfel assigned to the Landsturm Infantry battalion. Nice, presentation Imperial M89 sword which could easily be further researched. Exc+ $1,650.00 (19600)

Edited August 14, 2011 by Claudio

[Chris Boonzaier]

Is the order of mounting correct ?

Best

Chris

[Claudio]

Yes, I think so... if the officer was a proud Prussian then all the Prussian medals come first, not to mention that this bar was put together before he received the FEK (Hindenburg Cross), maybe in the 20ies, when pretty everything was possible.

[Paul C]

The officer should be IDed with time. The SMK rolls are out, the SEK rolls are available and the Reuss awards are not found yet. I think it will be a reserve officer.

[Dave Danner]

The following are the recipients of both the SMK and the SEK3X from Schwarzburg-Sondershausen. For each, after the name, rank and unit, and award date, I have added what extra information I have. This information comes from multiple sources, including other published award rolls, rank lists, the Militär-Wochenblatt, and Wehrmacht personnel files.

Fischer, Hermann

Lt., RIR 251, SEK3X am 5.10.17

19.2.1894-12.4.1968; Genlt. i.d. Wehrmacht; RKdEK, EK1mSp39, EK2mSp39, Ostmed., GSF3bX, SMK, SEK3X, WVK4X, Baltenkreuz, WHDA1, VAs, Ärmelband "Kurland", FinnFK2X

Haase, Armin

Lt.d.R., RIR 253, SEK3X am 6.7.16

[Lt.d.R. am 27.1.16 (RIR 82)]; SMK, SEK3X

Hansen, Karl

Hptm., RIR 252, SEK3X am 8.10.18

1876-1965; Genlt.z.V. i. d. Wehrmacht; plM, HOH3X, EK1&2, SMK, SEK3X, ÖM3K, SA3b, EH3b, WHDA1, VAs

Heymann, Julius

Lt.d.R., IR 71, SEK3X am 6.7.16

Lt.d.R. am 27.12.15; SMK, SEK3X

Hülle, Friedrich

Hptm., Adj. 51.Res.Div., SEK3X am 25.6.18

14 Lt., IR 29, OLt. am 28.11.14, Hptm. am 18.12.15, Maj.a.D.; HOH3X, EK1&2, SMK, SEK3X, WVK4X

Luther, August

Lt.d.R., 1.Ers.Btl./IR 71, SEK3X am 8.11.16

Lt.d.R. am 27.12.15; Lehrer in Schnett, SMK, SEK3X

Maempel, Rolf

Lt., IR 95, SEK3X am 27.3.15

1895-1955; Lt. am 7.8.14, Oberst i.d. Wehrmacht; DKiG, EK1mSp39, EK2mSp39, EH3bX, SMK, CK, SEK3X, VAs, PzKpfAbz, UngVO4X

Reißig, Artur

Lt.d.R., kgl. sächs. UR 17, SEK3X am 15.1.15

sächsisch; SV3bX, SA3bX, SMK, SEK3X

Scheider, Hugo

Lt.d.L., IR 71, SEK3X am 28.4.15

Ldw.Bez. Sondershausen; Reichsbank-Beamter in Nordhausen; SMK, SEK3X

Scheidig, Hermann

Lt.d.R., IR 71, SEK3X am 29.11.15

Lt.d.R. am 29.1.15; Gerichts-Sekr. in Schalkau; SMK, SEK3X

Schlegel, Rudolf

Rittm., Kdr., MG-SS-Abt. 16, SEK3X am 19.12.17

Rittm. am 24.12.14 (Pat. 8.10.14); aus Bellstedt, S-Sond.; EH3aX, SMK, SEK3X

Schobess, Hans

Lt.d.R., IR 71, SEK3X am 15.3.17

Lt.d.R. am 15.12.16; aus Niederröblingen, Kr. Apolda, S.W.E; stud. Recht, Univ. Halle; EK1&2, GSF3bX, SMK, SEK3X

Schunke, _____

OLt., IR 71, SEK3X am 10.2.15

14 Lt., Adj. III/IR 71, OLt. am 4.7.14, Hptm. am 18.8.15; EH3bX, SMK, SEK3X, RSt3

Solger, Wilhelm

Hptm., 22. Res.-Div., SEK3X am 29.11.15

geb. 1.5.1876; Hptm.i.G. in Japan, 1911-14, 7.Armee (9.14-5.15), 22.RD (5.15-3.16), Fhr. III./IR 117 (3.-6.16), XIV.R.K. (6-9.16), Et.Insp. 6 (9.16-7.17), Pascha II (7.17-KE); Maj. am 28.6.16, OTLaD; HOH3X, EK2 (29.10.14), EK1 (23.8.15), ZM97, AK (15.6.17), HT, SA3aX, SMK, SEK3X [vermutlich außerdem türk. Auszeichnungen)

Teicke, Emil

OLt.d.R., IR 28, jetzt b. Ers.Btl./LIR 71, SEK3X am 30.9.17

Kaufmann in Hagen; OLt.d.R. am 24.10.16, zzt. Adj. Bez.Kdo. Sondershausen; SMK, SEK3X

Voelker, Alexis

Hptm.d.L.a.D., RFAR 46, jetzt techn. Leiter d. Betriebsabt. III d. Kriegsbekl.amt IX A.K. Altona, SEK3X am 24.7.15

SMK, SEK3X

Weingarten, Hans

Lt., IR 71, SEK3X am 6.7.16

Lt. am 25.9.15 (Pat. am 22.3.16); SMK, SEK3X

Wilck, Hermann

OLt., IR 71, SEK3X am 27.10.14

X zum SEK3; 28.10.1885-10.6.1967; Genlt.z.V. i.d. Wehrmacht; plM (9.10.18), DKiS (30.10.43), HOH3X, EK1mSp39, EK2mSp39, KVK1X, KVK2X, HT, EH3bX SMK, SEK3X, ÖM3K, VAg

Witzendorff, Bodo von

Hptm., Adj. 76. Inf.Brig., SEK3X am 9.12.14

29.8.1876-9.8.1943; später RH u. Luftwaffe, Gen.d.Fl. am 1.2.39; DKiS (7.12.42), EK1&2, KVK1X, KVK2X, KO4, Joh, BrH4, HT, MG3, MMV1&2, MSGMFFIII, GSF3b, EH3aX, SMK, SEK3X, ÖFJ4, ÖM3K, DA, WHDA1mE, FinnF1XmE, SE5

Wölfel, Wolf

Hptm.a.D., 2.LdstIB Gera XI/25, früher b. Ldst.Halb.B Sondershausen, SEK3X am 31.1.17

OLt.a.D. (Mühlhausen i.Th.), zul. im IR 163, zu Hptm. am 27.1.15, zzt. im Ers./IR 32; SMK, SEK3X, ZM97

-------------------

We can eliminate these because of other known decorations:

Fischer, Hermann

Hansen, Karl

Hülle, Friedrich

Maempel, Rolf

Reißig, Artur (also, he's a Saxon)

Schlegel, Rudolf

Schobess, Hans

Schunke, _____

Solger, Wilhelm

Wilck, Hermann

Witzendorff, Bodo von

Of the remaining 9, these Leutnants der Reserve were likely too young and had no 1890s service for the Centenary:

Haase, Armin

Heymann, Julius

Luther, August

Scheidig, Hermann

Weingarten, Hans

Of the remaining:

Scheider, Hugo - I can't find his commission in the MWB, but he doesn't appear in the 1912 rank list

Teicke, Emil - the earliest he shows up is the 1912 rank list

That leaves:

Voelker, Alexis

Wölfel, Wolf

I did some more digging: according to Paul's DOA on CD, Hptm.d.L.a.D. Alexis Voelker was born in Arnstadt, S-Sond., on 5.4.1854. He had the LD1 and no Centenary is listed. The earliest rank list he appears in is 1878, when he was a Sekonde-Lieutenant in FAR 22. The last rank list he appears in is 1899, when he was a Hptm.d.L.-Feldart. in Ldw.Bez. Erfurt, again with just the LD1. So it would appear that he is out.

So that leaves us with Wolf Wölfel.

I will be going to Rudolstadt next month. I need to get some missing pages from the rolls for the wartime SEKs without swords, as well as other decorations. I also want to go through the Vorschläge to find any missing information like first names, birthdates and other awards that might be there.

Regards,

Dave

[Paul C]

Good detective work Dave. It is good to see you back here after a long absence!

[Claudio]

Hi Dave!

Thank you so much for taking the time to write down all this very interesting information... lots of work! I really appreciated it.

ciao,

Claudio

[christerd]

Fantastic work Dave Great to see the work on narrowing down the candidates to tjhe last one !

Christer

[Claudius]

Pic of the back...

Some of you might have already seen this bar before...

Indeed...indeed so.

I'm glad you got it. Great bar and mini!! It looks like you will have some great leads in identifying the recipient -Excellent. Outstanding work in the research. Great work in using historical rolls and logical progressions.

[VtwinVince]

Outstanding spange, Claudio, and just the sort of thing that I find interesting.

[Dave Danner]

Following up on this:

I have identified 8 more recipients of both the SMK and the SEK3X from Schwarzburg-Sondershausen. They were previously unidentified for various reasons - no first name, too common last name, typos in the SMK or SEK3X rolls, etc. They are:

• Beetz, Dr. phil. Wilhelm; Lt.d.R., IR 71

• Bergmann, Dr. phil. Arno; Lt.d.R., IR 32

• Erbslöh, Otto Walter; OLt.d.R., Ord.Offz. 76.IB

• Jung, Albrecht; Lt.d.R., IR 71

• Limburg, Heinrich, Hptm.d.R. d. Kraftfahr-Btl.

• Müller, Dr. jur. Fritz; Hptm.d.R., Stab d. Insp. d. Kraftfahrtruppen

• Reyß, Hermann; Hptm.d.R., 1.Ord.Offz., 103.ID

• Wiehe, Johannes; OLt.d.R., IR 32

All of these can be ruled out due to age or other awards. Alexis Voelker can be ruled out too. He had the LD1 and no Centenary.

So, unless there is another SMK/SEK3X awaiting identification, we are back to Wolf Wölfel. He was born on 10 July 1874 in Merseburg.

BTW, Georg Krommes, the Zahlmeister to whom Wölfel presented a dagger, received the SEK4X on 11.8.17 while serving in 2. Ldst.IB Gera XI/25. So he probably transferred from the Halb-Btl. Sondershausen along with Wölfel.

Best regards,

Dave

[Claudio]

Thank you Dave, for your terrific research work!