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Fakes: quality (slowly and not expertly) is on the raise

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Striped tiger obverse (a little mutated tiger)

Edited by JapanX

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Please pay attention to the obverse quality.

Obvious progress!

No signs of typical fantasy madness and better overall quality.

As I said slowly, but surely...

We'll wait and see.

Cheers,

Nick

Edited by JapanX

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Thanks for posting these Nick. That 'collector's copy' Rising Sun set is a worry, especially the very high quality of the lacquer case.

That Striped Tiger always makes me chuckle whenever I see it on ebay ... and in Borna Barac's otherwise superb Reference Catalogue of Orders, Decorations and Medals book. Mutant tiger indeed! It's like something you'd see on Tatooine ...

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For more of these apparent Chinese-origin copiers' products, see post/thread 'French order help. Military Order of Notre Dame of Sorrow?' which includes an image of another similar recently made star. eBay vendors, among others, offer first type Italian Republic Merit Order stars with the same manufacturing characteristics/provenance.

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Some of those reproductions are very convincing... Thank you for posting this information.

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Thanks for posting these Nick. That 'collector's copy' Rising Sun set is a worry, especially the very high quality of the lacquer case.

Just wait a little bit and I will post (tomorrow? :)) another thread completely devoted to replicas/fakes of Golden Kite order. Nice high-quality boxes again... Even for 1st class kites! It's seems that boxes are no longer a problem...

Cheers mates and thanks for reading ;)

Nick

Edited by JapanX

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Just wait a little bit and I will post (tomorrow? :)) another thread completely devoted to replicas/fakes of Golden Kite order. Nice high-quality boxes again... Even for 1st class kites! It's seems that boxes are no longer a problem...

Cheers mates and thanks for reading ;)

Nick

Ah, dunno about that! I think the replica cases are different enough from real ones. Yeah, they're good! But you can tell they are not made the same way and the lacquering is different. Hardware kinda gives them away too, at least in the lower orders - we've probably seen these on eBay, and I've seen one of these in person. Yes, the quality is good, but it was identifiable as replica - but they are honestly sold as replicas too. For a high class of order, somebody might go to the trouble to make a proper lacquerware case to try to pass it as authentic, but I just don't think it'd be worth the effort in general. But I could be wrong! It's been known to happen..... ;)

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Ah, dunno about that! I think the replica cases are different enough from real ones. Yeah, they're good! But you can tell they are not made the same way and the lacquering is different. Hardware kinda gives them away too, at least in the lower orders - we've probably seen these on eBay, and I've seen one of these in person. Yes, the quality is good, but it was identifiable as replica - but they are honestly sold as replicas too. For a high class of order, somebody might go to the trouble to make a proper lacquerware case to try to pass it as authentic, but I just don't think it'd be worth the effort in general. But I could be wrong! It's been known to happen..... ;)

Sure these boxes are not perfect (lacquering and hardware + often wrong dimensions).

And we should be thankful for that ;)

But if we compare box quality with usual replicas/fakes quality - they are indeed "high-quality" pieces.

Under what title (replica/original) they are sold - it's a question of dealer honesty.

For what and as what (replica/original) collector will buy them - it's a question of he's/she's expertise.

Regards,

Nick

Edited by JapanX

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Why all you can say is keep your purchases among reputable sellers and hopefully backed by systems like eBay and PayPal that can lend support when fakes are identified! I know this isn't always possible, especially with higher class or rare items that are likely to end up for sale elsewhere. And you already said it - DEALER HONESTY! We need the thread of "SHAME" here for people to highlight their questionable dealings and alert others on who or what to watch.

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A thread of SHAME would be good, but we have to first include the systems you say 'backup' reputable sellers: ebay and paypal. Don't mean to go on a rant, but those companies (actually one company) are shameful, to say the least. They refund buyers even with EMS tracking info, they put 21-day holds on balances on a whim, they charge outlandish fees, and they punish sellers when buyers make a claim--even when the seller gives a full refund. (I lost my 20% discount because ebay allowed a buyer from Israel to bid despite me blocking bidders from that country. He left me a negative feedback; I lost 20% discount forever because ebay will not give it back.)

Another shameful episode that happened to me recently: A dishonest buyer in Singapore (Dieter, you've already mentioned this guy on another thread) claimed he didn't receive an EMS package (the arrival is confirmed online) yet ebay/paypal awarded him the money--a mere 80,000 yen (900 USD). Sigh, the stories go on and on. So whatever 'backup' you think feebay and preypal are doing, think again.

Sorry for this unprofessional outburst. I've had a tough few months dealing with those companies.

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A thread of SHAME would be good, but we have to first include the systems you say 'backup' reputable sellers: ebay and paypal. Don't mean to go on a rant, but those companies (actually one company) are shameful, to say the least. They refund buyers even with EMS tracking info, they put 21-day holds on balances on a whim, they charge outlandish fees, and they punish sellers when buyers make a claim--even when the seller gives a full refund. (I lost my 20% discount because ebay allowed a buyer from Israel to bid despite me blocking bidders from that country. He left me a negative feedback; I lost 20% discount forever because ebay will not give it back.)

Another shameful episode that happened to me recently: A dishonest buyer in Singapore (Dieter, you've already mentioned this guy on another thread) claimed he didn't receive an EMS package (the arrival is confirmed online) yet ebay/paypal awarded him the money--a mere 80,000 yen (900 USD). Sigh, the stories go on and on. So whatever 'backup' you think feebay and preypal are doing, think again.

Sorry to hear this Rich.

These systems have "buyer-oriented bias". No doubt about it.

As for "SHAME" thread ...

Very dangerous...Double-edged weapon...Dishonest/unexpert buyers could easily used it against honest sellers or dishonest sellers could used it against honest sellers (to ruin the reputation of the last ones).

Regards,

Nick

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Hi Rich,

No, no, I hear you. eBay was worthless when it came to my dealing with "Mr. Singapore" - why I completely will not even deal with that country, thanks to that one dishonest jerk. I wonder what his eBay ID is these days...???

So - what I meant by being backed by PayPal and eBay is that they do seem to protect the buyer - so if you buy with those mechanisms your chances are better for controlling issues of fakes, etc. As a seller? Yeah, they do not look out for the seller and the fees are onerous, but it is still a good sales outlet. One thing though that i really HATE about eBay is that they have policies about this and that, like no GUNS and no NAZI stuff. But what can you expect out of a bunch of politically correct California based companies? Oh well.

Buit yes - a THREAD of SHAME would be nice, as well as a THREAD of KUDOS for people to express their positive experiences with buying/selling too.

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Sorry to hear this Rich.

These systems have "buyer-oriented bias". No doubt about it.

As for "SHAME" thread ...

Very dangerous...Double-edged weapon...Dishonest/unexpert buyers could easily used it against honest sellers or dishonest sellers could used it against honest sellers (to ruin the reputation of the last ones).

Regards,

Nick

Hi Nick,

I see you point, but I've also seen this mechanism used elsewhere, and this just does not seem to occur, not to mention - I think others would come to the defense of the honest ones if it were to happen.

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Hi Nick,

I see you point, but I've also seen this mechanism used elsewhere, and this just does not seem to occur, not to mention - I think others would come to the defense of the honest ones if it were to happen.

My experience with this "machanism" is completely opposite ;)

Let me put it this way - different "others" will come to defense different people :lol:

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And another portion of these “chinese” beauties …

Extra super rare Star of Sun YatSen (!) issued in commemoration of the creation of Kuomintang.

Numbered 059 (extremely low number!)

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Order of the Resplendent Banner (its not my description folks :lol: ).

1st Class Star, with 3 Stars on top.

Later restrike of this very rare order.

In perfect condition (naturally...).

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Order of the Blue Sky and White Sun.

Brest Star (!!! cool !!!) of this rare Order.

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And extra super rare “Medal of Chiang Kai-Shek” (“Shek” indeed!)

Coming straight from Kuomintang era.

Silver plated metal, enameled, 56 x 45 mm.

Reverse with chinese inscriptions (made in accurate horizontal lines :lol: ).

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And another super rarity.

Star of the Decoration for Participant in the Defense of Shanghai against the Japanese, 1937. (!!!!!!!)

Breast Star, 82x85 mm., silvered bronze (nice touch!), superi, reverse with vertical double pin (classic! ) and Chinese inscriptions, numbered 0122 (!)

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Gah! Some (most ... ALL) of these fake Republican medals are ghastly with their lurid poster paint and the dead, staring eyes of the personages.

What's concerning however is when they appear on the auction lists of otherwise reputable auction houses. I won't name names but a well known European auction house had a whole clutch of these listed at auction a year or two ago.

Coupled with their "no refunds whatsoever" policy, it makes me nervous dealing with some of the Continental houses as opposed to like Spink or Morton & Eden who have the professional courage to stand by their reputation by offering refunds for fakes.

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