South African Victory Medals

[lambert]

Hi Paul

you can set your digital machine to a lower resolution , 72 dpi for example, or edit the Photoshop or another image editor to the same resolution ..

Regards

Lambert

 

[Paul Evenden]

Front facing 

 

Edited April 24, 2015 by Paul Evenden

[Paul Evenden]

rear facing  . Any observations kindly received

[lambert]

Hello.
Could you please identify this South African unit?

Vic and the War Medal is written S.A.H.A (?)

 

Cheers

Lambert

 

 

Edited October 27, 2015 by lambert

[Bilco]

Lambert - I think S.A.H.A is South African Horse Artillery. See http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/records/abbreviations-in-world-war-one-medal-index-cards-unit.pdf the list of abbreviations used in WW1 MICs.

This source also has the first set you show as South African Service Corps Mounted Brigade Train!

 

Bill

Edited October 27, 2015 by Bilco
spelling

[lambert]

Thank Bill !!

 

That's what I was looking for .. it is extremely useful.

 

Lambert

 

[Brett Hendey]

I think it might be South African Heavy Artillery, but I will check later.

Brett

[lambert]

Heavy artillery ??  British Railway gun ??

Edited October 28, 2015 by lambert

[Brett Hendey]

 A South African heavy artillery brigade of 4.7 inch and 4 inch naval guns had already served in German South West Africa in 1915.  It was reconstituted as a regiment of five batteries for service in Europe.  It was armed with 6 inch howitzers.  The regiment was affiliated to the Royal Garrison Artillery, and  each battery was given a RGA number.  Officers of the regiment were awarded 11 DSO's, 1 OBE, 1 MBE, 1 bar to MC, and 26 MC's.  Other ranks also received many awards. The SAHA has an appendix devoted to it in the book 'The South African Forces in Europe' by John Buchan (Thomas Nelson & Sons). 

Brett

[IrishGunner]

Brett, I too thought S.A.H.A. was for South African Heavy Artillery.  However, the source from the National Archives posted by Bill in Post #30 seems authoritative.  I went back to my notes on the lone S.A.H.A. medal in my collection (a BWM) to a Gunner, but I did not record the source I found then for the abbreviation.  Of course, if you look at medals for sale on the internet with the S.A.H.A. abbreviation, they usually state Heavy Artillery.  So, there still is some doubt on my part.   But even with that, I would have to go with the source provided by Bill that it's Horse Artillery vice Heavy Artillery. 

Other thoughts?

 

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

I dont think there was a SAHA as Horse Arty.... SAHA as always been for the Heavy Arty for South Africa in WW1...

http://samilitaryhistory.org/vol125df.html

SA Had Field and Heavy...

See top 3 Units listed here...

 

http://kaiserscross.com/40117/295001.html

[IrishGunner]

Chris, thanks for that...  I only remember seeing references to a Transvaal Horse Artillery that I think was in GSWA.  I also don't think I've seen anything about a South African horse arty unit in France as you note.  Abbreviation references are often guesses themselves. 

If I ever motivate myself to get back to writing articles on WWI artillery, a South African piece would be a good one.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Of course it would! :-)

[RobW]

On 15/01/2017 at 06:36, davidck said:

I have taken the trouble of mounting my collection, thus far.  My examples of the Siamese and Brazilian medals are reproductions (as well as, possibly, my "landing victory" Italian), but all others are genuine as far as I know. 

I am missing several major variants, including Greece unofficial type 3, Italy official type 5 and unofficial types 2 and 3, Portugal official type 1 and unofficial type 2, and South Africa type 2.  I have seen both the South African type 2 and Portuguese unofficial type 2 for sale online, but both got away from me.  The others, I have never seen at all, as far as I remember.  Anyone aware of any of these for sale somewhere?

Hi David,

To provide some specific guidance regarding the South African type 2.  They are particularly difficult to find so if opportunity presents snag it because they just don't seem to be appearing on the market.  There are comparison pics of relatively good quality at posts # 2 & #3 at the start of this sub-thread.

If you also collect miniatures be aware that the bi-lingual vic is even rarer than the type 2 full-size.  The vast majority of South African miniature groups have the standard British vic mini but there were also bi-lingual vic mini's produced but in very limited quantities.  They are exceptionally rarely seen so again; should you see one snag it.

I have a number of examples of the full-size type 2 in my collection, as well as a bi-lingual mini, but they are staying put for the foreseeable future.

Good luck in your quest.

Regards,
Rob

[davidck]

Thanks Rob, I'm continuing to look.  I actually found one on eMedals once, but waited a few months because I didn't feel like paying for it and was pretty sure it would still be there.  I decided to buy it one day and it was still available, but when I tried about half an hour later, someone had snatched it up.  Learned a valuable lesson that day.

[Auseklis]

Dear All,
I just was offered this South African VM, it should be a type 1, but is it genuine?
I would be very thankfull for your advice!

 

[lambert]

Hello!

Could you show clearer photos? It's a little dark. I really have a lot of doubts. I think it could be another fake medal.

Lambert

[Auseklis]

Thank you. I'll ask for more pictures.

 

[peter monahan]

Good Lord, are they faking Victory Medals now?

[RobW]

 

Good Lord, are they faking Victory Medals now?

Hi Peter,

The entire victory medal series has been faked for quite a few years now; more predominantly the harder to obtain pieces like the Siam vic. I suppose with a known international market for the vic series in general it will always be attractive to the fakers to make their wares and hope they snare the unsuspecting buyer.

Luckily, in this instance, the style and type of naming lettering is too different to that seen on originals.

I think one the more lasting benefits of places like this forum is to share the knowledge and good quality pictures as an aid to educate the new and inexperienced collectors.

Regards,
Rob

[oliver860]

Hello, gentlemen!

New bilingual medal.

Inscription: 1793 MNSK N. J .BENADE-6DE D.M.R.

And it is turned upside down by 180 degrees

Yours faithfully!

 

[lambert]

OMSA doesn't use the term "fake", but uses the following categories:

• "Original" means medals authorized by, or produced under contract to, the issuing entity during the period for which the award was authorized or awarded to the recipients of the medal.
• "Restrike" means medals authorized by, or produced under contract to, the issuing entity after the period for which the award was authorized, and produced using the original dies or molds used to produce the original medals.
• "Re-Production" means medals authorized by, or produced under contract to, the issuing entity after the period for which the award was authorized, and produced using new dies or molds.
• "Copy" means a substantially identical duplicate of an authorized medal not authorized by, or under contract to, the issuing entity, which is marked or identified as a copy to prevent confusion with the authorized medal, or otherwise clearly distinguishable from an original, restrike, or re-production. Copies may include contemporary wearing copies, private purchase medals, and collector copies.
• "Counterfeit" and "Repro" means a substantially identical duplicate of an authorized medal not produced by, or under contract to, the issuing entity, which is not marked as a copy or otherwise easily distinguishable from an original, restrike, or re-production and which a reasonable person could confuse with the authorized medal.
• "Forgery" - means a medal which has been altered for the purpose of fraudulently increasing its value, for example, by spuriously numbering, naming or renaming a medal, fitting a medal with bars to which the recipient was not entitled, or altering the class of the medal by adding parts, gilding, plating, etcetera.
• "Specimen" - means original, restrike, or re-production medals originally produced for display, exhibition, or presentation rather than award, and clearly distinguishable from original, restrike, or re-production medals, for example, by being marked "SPECIMEN", "COLLECTOR COPY", or "FOR EXHIBIT ONLY".
• "Novelty item" means a medal like object which incorporates some design elements of an authorized medal, but which differs substantially in size, shape, color, composition, and/or weight from the authorized medal so that a novice collector would not confuse the novelty item with the authorized medal. Objects that fall into this category can include jewelry, paperweights, coasters, and the like.

 

Lambert

[davidck]

What's going on with this medal?

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/303240176/WW1_Victory_Medal_SA_Pattern_Un_named.html

The obverse looks more or less normal, but the reverse is bizarre.  Just a really poor repro?

[Chris Boonzaier]

Thats engraved! really strange.....

[RobW]

On 9/14/2017 at 09:57, davidck said:

What's going on with this medal?

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/303240176/WW1_Victory_Medal_SA_Pattern_Un_named.html

The obverse looks more or less normal, but the reverse is bizarre.  Just a really poor repro?

Hi David,

I picked up one of this interesting variety a couple of years ago. They are quite unique and there does not seem to be much information out there on their background.

On my example the reverse planchet central area was particularly smooth, with what appeared to be grinding/filing marks just visible below the surface. That suggests the original lettering was removed, while the engraving looked professionally done. In addition there were, on my piece, a number of shallow test holes in the rim; which may have been indicative of some form of testing.

What is noticeable on the example you linked to, was the barrel suspender does not appear to be part of the planchet with what appears to be solder, very noticeable, on the obverse.

Regards,
Rob