Bulgaria FAKE BULGARIAN ORDERS ON THE MARKET

[Graf]

On 22/08/2023 at 19:19, Graf said:

The seller added additional pictures.

i am still not convinced that this is an original piece, although there is a bit of a bidding and he will get good price

Judge for yourselves

I am glad that people who bid realized  that this is a copy The final price on eBay was 600 Euro That is OK

i was afraid that there will be last minute mad bidding and someone will depart with significant amount of money

It is good collectors are getting the message and/or read our posts

I hope the Seller will learn something as well

[Graf]

On 08/02/2023 at 14:48, Igor Ostapenko said:

?????????? 

Hi Igor This is very bad  I agree

[Graf]

On 19/08/2023 at 08:27, Graf said:

Fake 1st Class of the Order for Bravery on eBay.de

Although  i have to admit it is good copy it has many features that can trick only new collector

- The  additional ring is missing

The Central medallion has too many dots

The lion is very bad quality to be first Class The swords were wit wrong handles

The back cap is wrong

The pin  although look good, is not a correct

 The Cross looks too shiny and new i suspect the enamel is new soft one i do not think that the seller will test it if asked to do so.

The Seller claims  that the Order is Original gilded silver I doubt

 

It is scary that the fakers can produce such good copy

The seller also sells few other fakes including well known  PLM  supposedly  made by Wagner  Has the marks however it is not near the quality of the Original -still attracted many bidders

Here is a well known original 1st Class

Attention!!!!!!!

The seller re-listed this item again He still insists it is original made by "other maker'

H  is using  a recent Auction by Herman Historica as example

The item is FAKE

He listed also many German Items also Fakes Including the same Fake PLM supposedly by Wagner

My advise Keep away from this Auction and seller

[Igor Ostapenko]

Fake star of St. Alexander 

 

https://bid.sofedesignauctions.com/lots/view/4-D4A37N/kingdom-of-bulgaria-silver-civil-breast-star-of-the-order-of-bravery

 

[Graf]

On 11/04/2024 at 16:08, Igor Ostapenko said:

Fake star of St. Alexander 

 

https://bid.sofedesignauctions.com/lots/view/4-D4A37N/kingdom-of-bulgaria-silver-civil-breast-star-of-the-order-of-bravery

 

 

Yes I agree  Fake Star Somebody paid  $1400 plus commission  

 

Cheers

[Graf]

On 19/08/2023 at 15:49, Graf said:

100% sure the enamel is a soft modern one like the one on the picture ( listed on page two on this forum "upgraded' Original Commander of the Order of St Alexander)

I sent an email to the seller See what he will answer I asked hm to do the needle tests on the enamel

The seller responded to my mail He did not check the enamel Insist that the Cross is Original

I cannot argue with him Buyer be Aware Rule apply

Here is a close shot of the central medallion

 

You can see the dull look of it The old glass enamel has very good transparency and dept

 

The seller re=listed this item and removed it from eBay Germany after two days ??!!

Still trying or he has few in stock He also sells several fake German Orders - knowingly or unknowingly.

 

Regards

[new world]

On 30/05/2024 at 20:07, Graf said:

The seller re=listed this item and removed it from eBay Germany after two days ??!!

Still trying or he has few in stock He also sells several fake German Orders - knowingly or unknowingly.

 

Regards

I bet he has few in stock. If fakers bother with tools, equipment and matrices it makes sense to re-use them and make multiple copies vs just one.

[Graf]

6 hours ago, new world said:

I bet he has few in stock. If fakers bother with tools, equipment and matrices it makes sense to re-use them and make multiple copies vs just one.

Yes, it is highly possible

 

Regards

[Graf]

On 04/06/2024 at 10:42, new world said:

I bet he has few in stock. If fakers bother with tools, equipment and matrices it makes sense to re-use them and make multiple copies vs just one.

You are right He listed one more

[Graf]

On 17/05/2019 at 14:36, Graf said:

Pictures of the Set sold recently  by the same dealer

Recently on eBay France a cross similar to this one from the Set above was sold for 2380 EURO { pictures bellow}

The Seller knowingly or not in a very smart way listed as a Grand Cross of the Bulgarian Order of Saints Kyril and Methodius Wit a question mark at the and

I sent him information regarding this mystery Orders, shared in this forum He thanked me, however he did not share this information with the bidders/buyers  ..hence the end selling price was very good for him

[Graf]

On 07/11/2017 at 10:14, 922F said:

Greetings!  Item in Graf's post 186 described by Dr. Klietmann [in the 1950's] as insignia of a private Order based in Paris. 

By chance, found Dr. Klietmann's notes published in "The Medal Collector" issue for September-October 1959, page 12.   [Fair use copy]

 

O. OF SS° CYRIL & METHODIU8 - ADDITIONAL COMMENTS BY DR. K. G. KLIETMANN

REFERRING TO THE ILLUSTRATIONS ON THE LOWER PORTION OF PAGE 5 OF
THE JULY-AuGusT 1959 ISSUE, WHICH SHOWED SOME UNUSUAL BADGES IN THE COLLECTION  OF DR, GOODWlN, THE FOLLOWING CAN BE SAID: THIS IS THE BADGE OF  A PRIVATE ORGANIZATION FOUNDED IN PARIS ON NOV, 24 1952~ WITH THE NAME  NOBLE ASSOCIATION CHEVALERESQUE DE LA CROIX DE CONSTANTIN LE GRAND  [NOBLE AND KNIGHTLY ASSOCIATION OF THE CROSS OF CONSTANTINE THE GREAT].     THE STATUTE IS SIGNED BY DON RIUS BERNARD~ PRINCE OF THESSALIE.  THE BADGE PICTURED ON THE LEFT IS WORN BY ALL MEMBERS OF THE ASSOCIATION FROM A SKY--BLUE RIBBON.

MISSING ON THE BADGE IS THE TROPHY (FOR MEN) OR THE ENAMELLED LADIES BOW~ SIMILAR TO THE CROSSES OF THE 0. OF MALTA.
THE STAR ON THE RIGHT~ WAS" TO BE AWARDED FOR SPECIAL MERITS IN THE CAUSE OF THE ASSOCIATION~ AS PER THE 8TATUTES~ AND WAS CALLED hPLAQUE DE MERITE~(PLAQUE OF MERIT). THIS ASSOCIATION MOST LIKELY DOES NOT EXIST ANY MORE° THE BADGES WERE MADE IN PARIS.

Inferences  that the private society design copies a Bulgarian precursor seem accurate if Klietmann's report is correct.

Liverpool Medals had a star for sale some years ago as did Patrice Reboul.   Among other places, several badges may be found illustrated in old [1970's-'80's] Klenau auction catalogs.

 

[Igor Ostapenko]

from China

[Graf]

11 hours ago, Igor Ostapenko said:

from China

I have seen few orders listed on eBay made in China

Well, we can expect that. Orders and Decorations will not be spared  from "knock off" production  The good news, they are very bad quality (for the moment) and only very new collectors can get fooled.

[new world]

it's a good thing that quality of these Chinese Bravery crosses is quite bad, they will not be fooling collectors. These are more of souvenirs IMHO. 

[Graf]

On 28/11/2024 at 07:41, new world said:

it's a good thing that quality of these Chinese Bravery crosses is quite bad, they will not be fooling collectors. These are more of souvenirs IMHO. 

From the same seller on eBay he is from China and selling many other new production items

Problem - He describes  the items as brand new an -opened at the same time states that are Original WW1 period

As you said  "These are more of souvenirs"

 

Cheers

[Graf]

I was offered 13.5% on one of the items Here is the item

 

I am a Lucky Man

[Igor Ostapenko]

On 11/04/2024 at 09:08, Igor Ostapenko said:

Fake star of St. Alexander 

 

https://bid.sofedesignauctions.com/lots/view/4-D4A37N/kingdom-of-bulgaria-silver-civil-breast-star-of-the-order-of-bravery

 

 

This “star” today with another medallion 

 

 https://balkanauction.com/bg/auction/6992924
 

[Graf]

4 hours ago, Igor Ostapenko said:

This “star” today with another medallion 

 

 https://balkanauction.com/bg/auction/6992924
 

I saw this Star on the Bulgarian Auction site It is a fantasy fake one..and the price is a big fantasy

 

1 minute ago, Graf said:

I saw this Star on the Bulgarian Auction site It is a fantasy fake one..and the price is a big fantasy

 

When I looked closely the red central part it reminded me of the dodgy central medallion I had to replace on a fake 1st Class Cross

7 minutes ago, Graf said:

I saw this Star on the Bulgarian Auction site It is a fantasy fake one..and the price is a big fantasy

 

When I looked closely the red central part it reminded me of the dodgy central medallion I had to replace on a fake 1st Class Cross

[new world]

Same seller who listed fantasy St Alexander star also sells high classes of other Bulgarian orders - cross of 1st class of Bravery, 1st class set of St Alexander with swords, 2nd classes of St Alexander and Military Merit. His photos are small and it's difficult to say for sure whether the awards are real or not, however the boxes look highly suspect and remind me of boxes from fake sets offered in recent past by infamous seller from Bulgaria (we discussed his sets earlier in this thread).

St Alexander 1cl

Bravery

Mil Merit 2cl

Edited December 3 by new world

[Graf]

21 hours ago, new world said:

Same seller who listed fantasy St Alexander star also sells high classes of other Bulgarian orders - cross of 1st class of Bravery, 1st class set of St Alexander with swords, 2nd classes of St Alexander and Military Merit. His photos are small and it's difficult to say for sure whether the awards are real or not, however the boxes look highly suspect and remind me of boxes from fake sets offered in recent past by infamous seller from Bulgaria (we discussed his sets earlier in this thread).

St Alexander 1cl

Bravery

Mil Merit 2cl

I saw them They look a bit odd

The Cross of the 1st Class of St Alexander - the central medallion looks like the one I listed earlier in the thread

The box is late reproduction The Set is assembled  Look the the hook on the sash it is meant for a cross without ribbon loop

 I think the Cross was upgraded from 3rd Class to 1st  Class  with one of the modern plastic one

The same I can say for the central medallion of the fantasy Star listed earlier by Igor

 

Cheers

[seb16trs]

Gentlemen, I've been proposed this 4th class cross, and I'm not fairly optimistic about this piece.

Can I solicitate your opinions please?

[steveBobby]

4 hours ago, seb16trs said:

Gentlemen, I've been proposed this 4th class cross, and I'm not fairly optimistic about this piece.

Can I solicitate your opinions please?

While the build quality is a bit poor, I think this is authentic as it dates from the First World War.

Yours

Steve

[Graf]

15 hours ago, seb16trs said:

Gentlemen, I've been proposed this 4th class cross, and I'm not fairly optimistic about this piece.

Can I solicitate your opinions please?

Extremely bad quality, It is on the border line to say whether it is bad Original or bad recent cast copy Ribbon is not an original

If I am you I will pass Those crosses in much better quality are available on eBay on a very reasonable prices they are very common

[seb16trs]

Thank you very much gents for such prompt asnwers!

 

This cross was temptating beacuse proposed by a guy who acquired them long time ago, in the "heroic" times of late 90ies...

[Graf]

On 20/12/2024 at 09:04, seb16trs said:

Thank you very much gents for such prompt asnwers!

 

This cross was temptating beacuse proposed by a guy who acquired them long time ago, in the "heroic" times of late 90ies...

Hi This Cross is from WW1 period and because they were produced in huge numbers it is difficult to trace the awarded person unless there is a significant evidence and provenance Be careful when a seller tell you some "heroic" stories to attract your attention . Those crosses were not very expensive and with a bit of search you can buy ,as i said earlier, a better quality one

 

Regards