Rare British group with German decoration

[turtle]

@Aberdeen Medals

Thanks for the additional information and the extra pictures of his Suedwestafrika Denkmuenze!!

[Kvart]

And then there is this, belonging to Herbert Sulzbach.

Source: http://ehive.com/account/3566/object/14972/Herbert_Sulzbachs_Medal_Group#!prettyPhoto

[Chris Boonzaier]

What a fantastic, fantastic group!!!!

[Bernhard H.Holst]

Hello.

Ref. Herbert Sulzbach.

This former WW I German officer has written his memoirs:

"With the German Guns. Four Years on the Western Front 1914 - 1918". Published in 1981 in Great Britain and also in 1981 in the USA.

Bernhard H. Holst

[turtle]

Amazing medal group! If he would have worn all of his awards together .... it must´ve been an incredible view!!

[peter monahan]

One wonders how soon after the respective World wars the British recipients would have re-commenced wearing those decorations. Or did they wear them right through and tough out the comments? Maybe different answers to that for the pre-1914 and pre-1939 German stuff!

[Gordon]

Hi,

I have not been on this site for a while. Howqever I wish to answer the issue of whether W. L. Simon was entitled to the 'Kalahari 1907' bar or not.

I wish to state clearly that the sources that I used for my book were primary i.e. directly from the various archives here in Windhoek, Germany and the U.K. In the German file here in the Namibian Archives on the Morenga incident - for which the German medal was awarded, the official German award list shows that Simon was NOT entitled to the bar as he was not present at the actual engagement with Morenga.

Whether Simon bought the bar privately and then attached it to his medal could be a possibility as the bar could be bought directly from the maker here in Windhoek.

I hope that this answers the question.

Rgds,

Gordon McGregor

[Mervyn Mitton]

Gordon - nice to see you back. I'm sure your confirmation will clear any doubts. Mervyn

[Jeff Mc William]

A very interesting thread. Thank you Gentlemen. May I ask if anyone knows where I can obtain some decent colour pics of Surgeon-General George Manley VC.CB. medals. Amoung his numerous awards he had the New Zealand War Medal & Victoria Cross plus the German Franco /Prussian War Medal 1870 and the Iron Cross, a unique combination I believe. Unfortunately the RAMC Museum says it does not have his medals...or even a photograph of them !? Rather curious I think. Can anyone else point me in the right direction ?

Many thanks in advance. Jeff

[Paul R]

Those would look great court mounted together!

[Greg]

A quick image search on google brought this up - with a colourised photo showing the good doctor wearing many medals.

http://tauranga.kete.net.nz/battle_of_gate_pa_1864/topics/show/934

http://collections.tepapa.govt.nz/APICollection/media/173167/640

For some reason, this system won't allow me to upload the photo and when I use the direct url of the picture, I get a message saying that I am not allowed to post a picture with "that extention" whatever that means. Maybe someone else can do it.

Greg.

(Downunder)

Edited December 9, 2014 by Greg

[Paul R]

Here is that image. Surgeon Manley earned the EK2 as a British Surgeon in the Franco-Prussian War!!! It is awesome to see this being worn with the VC. This image made my day. Thank you.

[Jeff Mc William]

Here is that image. Surgeon Manley earned the EK2 as a British Surgeon in the Franco-Prussian War!!! It is awesome to see this being worn with the VC. This image made my day. Thank you.

Yes. Thank you too Gents that is an excellent picture and biography.

Incidently my records show that he was not the only Brit to get the German Iron Cross. The other names I have are ;

General Sir C.P.B Walker (Franco Prussian War I think)

Surgeon J.H.K. Innes ditto

General Sir Henry Brakenbury ditto

Capt Sir James Lumsden Seaton ditto

Col Sir Henry Montague Hozier ditto

Mr Eddie Chapman WW2

This last one is the only one I know that was awarded the Nazi decoration. He was apparently a double-agent.

Once again thank you very much Gentlemen for a most interesting thread. Regards Jeff

[Rogi]

Here is that image. Surgeon Manley earned the EK2 as a British Surgeon in the Franco-Prussian War!!! It is awesome to see this being worn with the VC. This image made my day. Thank you.

What a great photo Paul! Excellent find man

[Mervyn Mitton]

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-6209-0-95035400-1418210050.jpgclick

A few extra details and a slightly deeper photo - showing an extra award. Taken from the two volume

set on Victoria Cross Headstones and Monuments by David Harvey. Titled "Monuments to Courage"

[azyeoman]

Here's an interesting one. I apologize in advance as I can't make the photos larger, but you can see them on line via a Canadian dealer.

Lt. Fellows is 1 of only a select few Allied men awarded the German Red Cross Honor Award when the German battleship "Deutschland" sought help after taking a big hit during the spanish civil war. This is a well documented case and has been discussed in the OMRS. War Damaged Group: 1914-15 Star (LIEUT. T.B. FELLOWES R.N.); British War Medal (LIEUT. T.B. FELLOWES R.N.); Victory Medal (LIEUT. T.B. FELLOWES R.N.); Jubliee Medal 1935; Coronation Medal 1937; and Russian Order of St.Stanislaus, 3rd Class. Naming is officially impressed on the three medals. Swing bar suspension, original ribbons, damaged, accompanied by two level ribbon bar of same. Second group of unmounted medals: 1914-15 Star (LT. T.B. FELLOWES RN. REPLACEMENT); British War Medal (LT. T.B. FELLOWES RN REPLACEMENT); Victory Medal (LT T B FELLOWES RN); Jubilee Medal 1935; Coronation Medal 1937; Defence Medal; and War Medal 1939-1945. Three replacement medals are officially impressed, in extremely fine condition. Also included is the American Tuscania Survivors Association Medal (brass, engraved "IN RECOGNITION OF VALOR SHOWN BY COMMANDER AND CREW OF MOSQUITO IN RESCUE OF U.S.A. TROOPS, FEB. 5, 1918", 31 mm x 38 mm); and German Red Cross Honour Award, 3rd Model, 1st Class (with ribbon bar, in case of issue); German Red Cross Honour Award document signed by the President of the German Red Cross, July 26, 1937; a letter from the German Consulate in Gibraltar; documents from Buckingham Palace authorizing him to wear the Jubilee Medal 1935 and the Coronation Medal 1937; letter from the London Civil Defence Region War Debris Survey and Disposal Director dated 1941; copies of his Service Records; his original Cadet Training Certificate from Dartmouth; a photograph of Captain Fellowes; and a copy from "The Landed Gentry" documenting his lineage. Footnote: Thomas Balfour Fellowes was born on July 13, 1891 and was educated at the Royal Naval College at Osborne, Isle of Wight, and then Dartmouth. His father was Rear Admiral Sir Thomas Hounsom Butler Fellowes, K.C.B. (1911), C.B. (1868), who himself was decorated for the Crimean War (1854-55) and the Abyssinian War (1868). T. B. Fellowes entered the Royal Navy in 1903 at the age of twelve. He became a Midshipman in May 1908, a Sub-Lieutenant in October 1911 and Lieutenant in October 1913. It was in this capacity during World War I that he found himself aboard H.M.S. Unity at the Battle of Jutland on May 31 - June 1, 1916. It was for this conflict that he was awarded the Russian Order of St. Stanislaus. He was also recognized as commander of the British Destroyer Mosquito, by the survivors of the S.S. Tuscania, a U.S. troops transport ship which was torpedoed off the coast of Ireland on February 5, 1918, in rescue of its survivors. After the war, he married Anne Evelyn Frances on December 13, 1921. Fellowes was promoted to Lieutenant-Commander in October 1921, followed by Commander in December 1926 and later, to Captain, in June 1934. While he was Chief of Staff at Gibraltar in 1937, he was in charge of the rescue and treatment of injured German soldiers. He was subsequently awarded the German Red Cross Honour Badge for his efforts and was given permission by His Majesty the King, to wear it without restriction. Fellowes retired in October 1938 but was recalled to service in 1939 upon the outbreak of World War II and served until 1943. During the German bombing Blitz, between September 1940 and May 1941, Fellowes' original medal grouping was damaged and found its way into the War Debris Survey and Disposal Dump at Hyde Park in London. They were found and tentatively identified as his. He received a letter from the Director of the War Debris Survey, dated October 25, 1941, addressed to him while he was known as Captain Fellowes: "Dear Sir, A number of medals, some of them in a damaged condition, have been found at the War Debris Survey and Disposal Dump at Hyde Park. Some of them bear the name of Lt. T.B. Fellowes. I understand that you held the rank of Lieutenant during the Great War, and shall therefore be pleased if you would let me know whether any of these medals are likely to have been yours. If you will let me have particulars and evidence of ownership, they will then be returned to you." He was very pleased to have them returned and they accompany the replacement medals. The Order of St. Stanislaus was not replaced. In 1972, he celebrated the 200th anniversary of his grandfather's birth, while in 1973, he celebrated the 70th anniversary of his having joined the Royal Navy with friends at the Royal Aero Club. Fellowes passed away in 1974 at the age of 82.

Edited December 19, 2014 by azyeoman

[Laurence Strong]

I received this email quite some time ago while on a different forum.

"475801 Pte H.A. Cochran was awarded the Barvarian Cross of Military Merit, 3rd class. The Citation reads:

"To the English Prisoner of War, Cochran Harry Adolf, from Prisoner Camp Bayreuth: We express herewith for the rescue done with courage,and resoluteness of the 3 year old child named Gugel, saving her from drowning in the Birnbaum Pond in Feilsbrom, District of Auch Gusbach, the acknowledgement of the War Office."

Munich, 20th of June 1918

M. Henningrath

General Of the Cavalry

Minister of War

Pte Cochran was released from POW camp shortly after the armistice but died 28 Dec 1918 in a military hospital in France, caused by injuries sustained during the Battle Of Sanctuary Wood.

It is believed that he is the only Allied soldier to be decorated by the enemy.

Attached is a picture of his medals, currently on display at the PPCLI Museum.

Sgt Graham, BA

PPCLI Archives

The Military Museums

4520 Crowchild Trail SW

Calgary AB

T2T 5J4

403 974-2867

e-mail: archives@ppcli.com"

:cheers;

Larry

Edited December 21, 2014 by Laurence Strong

[Chris Boonzaier]

I received this email quite some time ago while on a different forum.

:cheers;

Larry

Hi,

I would be very curious to see the original documentation on that.... I don't think even a German soldier would have recieved that award for a lifesaving action in Munich. And a private would not have recieved the medal with a crown, which is rank related as opposed to the level of Bravery.

I am guessing he did indeed recieve a medal, or at least a commendation, but not a Bavarian Military Merit Cross. I think something has been lost in translation and family legend and the cross shown ist just a "filler". An original quote from a family member (found with google) mentions an Iron Cross being in family possesion and being his award.

Best

Chris

[Laurence Strong]

I am inclined to agree with you Chris. IIRC there was a large amount of skepticism over it.

Cheers

Larry

[Aberdeen Medals]

Gordon - nice to see you back. I'm sure your confirmation will clear any doubts. Mervyn

No it still remains unclear how exactly Simon obtained his 1906 Kalahari clasp - albeit I strongly suspect it was awarded to him with the medal at the same time as the other recipients in the same unit received theirs.

That he was not entitled to the clasp is not in question - however he was clearly awarded / presented such a clasp as it is written in his service papers in red ink, that he did.

He would not have been the first, or the last medal recipient to receive a clasp to which he was not entitled. Mistakes and errors can occur at many levels in the medal issuing process, the end result being recipients occasionally receiving medals and or clasps to which they are not patently not entitled.

In the case of Simon, the unedited and uncorrected error has been recorded in posterity in red ink on his papers.

As information.

Mark