Is it possible to put a name to this NC bar?

[padro]

Hi this is my latest and I think rarest medal bar.

It consists of;

Hilal-i Ahmer Medalyasi (Turkish Red Crescent Medal) in Bronze

Saxe Meiningen Merit Cross in Zinc on Non Combatant ribbon

1905 PRLM in silver to Civil Servant

1916 Ludwig Cross

I believe only about 100 Merit crosses were awarded in 1918 on Non combatant ribbon so presumably less in zinc.

Do the rolls for the Merit Cross exist and if so would it be possible to narrow it down to a few names for me to research?

Any help would be appreciated, and if not possible I hope you like the bar anyway.

Best regards

Pete

[Paul C]

I believe the award rolls for the SMKNK do exists but I don't have them.

[ixhs]

It`s a version with hooks, may be there was a SM medal for non combatants on it.

The Version with crown was awarded ~ 600 times.

Its a late war version (or after 1918) made of Zinc

I don`t think, that the bar could be IDd.

The bavarian one(s) were awarded a few thousand times. And if i am right, there are no german

rolls for the Hilal-i-Ahmer medal.

A very nice bar - i am collecting turkish medals & bars.

If you would like to sell that piece in future please let me know. May be we could trade with other imperial things, if you like.

I am paying good prices for bringing some nice pieces back home to Germany.

 

 

Edited February 17, 2016 by ixhs

[dedehansen]

Hi Pete,

so you was the bad guy  , who has bidden more than me. 

I think the bar is good, as it is now.

Kind regards 

Andreas

[padro]

Sorry Andreas it was just too good to miss!!!

Where did you get that photo?

I agree with you it certainly looks and feels a good one, there can't have been too many zinc merit crosses awarded on non combatant ribbon. What do you reckon about 60-70??

I know now that Rick produced the rolls for this one is there a copy out there that I can buy?

Best regards

Pete

[dedehansen]

3 minutes ago, padro said:

Sorry Andreas it was just too good to miss!!!

Where did you get that photo?

I agree with you it certainly looks and feels a good one, there can't have been too many zinc merit crosses awarded on non combatant ribbon. What do you reckon about 60-70??

I know now that Rick produced the rolls for this one is there a copy out there that I can buy?

Best regards

Pete

The photo is from my collection. I collect imperial german medal bars, photos with bars and document groups.

Unfortunately I don´t know how many were awarded.

If you contact Daniel Krause via this forum, maybe he can help you.

Regards

Andreas

[padro]

Thanks very much Andreas, amazing coincidence you having that photo.

Regards

Pete

[dedehansen]

 

Thanks Pete,

if you send me your emailadress via PN, I would send you the photo

for personal use.

Regards
Andreas

[chuck]

Pete,

Neal O'Connor book shows 103 awards of the Saxe-Meiningen Cross for Merit in War presented on the non-combattant ribbon in 1918, which is an officers awards.

chuck

[ixhs]

Tach Andreas!

Are you sure that the bar is the same as on your pic?

On it the Red cross medal  ist mit einem dunklen Faden oben am Rand angenäht?

An der Schnalle kannst Du keine Löcher vom Faden oben erkennen.? Komisch?

 

Greetz Joe

 

[dedehansen]

Hi Joe.

I´m 100 % sure that it´s the same bar, please have a look

on the fall of the folds from the ribbons.

Kind regards

Andreas 

[ixhs]

Yes i would believe it, too Andreas, but were are the holes?

Can we have a pic of the upper side of the turkish ribbon? 

[dedehansen]

2 minutes ago, ixhs said:

Yes i would believe it, too Andreas, but were are the holes?

Can we have a pic of the upper side of the turkish ribbon? 

There is one small hole nearby the torn ribbon from thr Turkish medal.

[Claudius]

10 hours ago, dedehansen said:

 

Thanks Pete,

if you send me your emailadress via PN, I would send you the photo

for personal use.

Regards
Andreas

 

It is wonderful that you can match up the medal bar and the photo!  It is done on too few of occasions. 

Andreas, do you know the name?

At least, can you tell us what was this man's occupation?  (Can you tell from the photo?  What (Hussar's uniform?) is he wearing?) 

Regards,

[ixhs]

The problem on a bar with hooks is, that there could be hung an earlier version (bronce) of the SM medal/cross.

ON the pic you cannot see, if it is the zinc version or not.

 

[dedehansen]

Hi Claudius, as the bar was up for sale, I´ll tried to find out who the person was,

but I wasn´t, despite help, successful. The person on the photo is probably an actor.

I believe the photo is taken in the early twenties.

I think the bar is 100 % good, and at this time many things went into theater fundus,

and they were re - utilized.

Kind regards

Andreas

Hi Joe, I think this assembly is unique, and on a black and white photo

you can´t see if it is zinc or not. You must take into account that at this

time the photo was taken the medal was nearly new, now it is almost

100 years older.

Regards

Andreas

[padro]

Thanks for confirming that Chuck I thought it was about that number awarded in 1918.

Regarding the fixing of the Turkish medal, the red band of the ribbon is actually separate to the white ribbon and if you look carefully at the photo supplied by Andreas the medal is actually fixed to the bar with this red band and some white thread in the left corner. There is indeed a hole in that position. The red band must have come away at some stage hence the medal being reattached lower down and the red band has been stitched back on.

I agree with Andreas, comparing the ribbon folds and the uniqueness of this combination it must be the same bar, just who did it belong to ???

Fascinating, thanks for all the comments.

Regards

Pete

[Ulsterman]

PLEASE post the picture! Who was he? Who? 

[camelneck]

Pete,

This is a fantastic looking bar and all the medals appear to be in excellent condition.  The fact that it has the Iron Crescent and a S-M cross on a non-combatant's ribbon makes it very rare and possibly one-of-a-kind.  I usually find Turkish medals to be rather plain and ugly, but the red crescent on the white enamel really makes this medal really come to life. 

Your Saxe-Meiningen Cross appears to be in great shape.  Even the pure zinc version of this cross looks wonderful.  This is good news for me, because my mailman currently has a zinc SM Cross for Merit In War in his truck!  It should arrive at my door in about 4 hours! 

Here is a pic of my cross.

[padro]

Hi Camelneck, thanks for the comments. 

I also think this bar has a chance to be traceable and I agree the SM cross is a great medal.

Hope yours turns up OK it looks a good example.

Best regards

Pete

[Claudius]

22 hours ago, camelneck said:

Pete,

This is a fantastic looking bar and all the medals appear to be in excellent condition.  The fact that it has the Iron Crescent and a S-M cross on a non-combatant's ribbon makes it very rare and possibly one-of-a-kind.  I usually find Turkish medals to be rather plain and ugly, but the red crescent on the white enamel really makes this medal really come to life. 

Your Saxe-Meiningen Cross appears to be in great shape.  Even the pure zinc version of this cross looks wonderful.  This is good news for me, because my mailman currently has a zinc SM Cross for Merit In War in his truck!  It should arrive at my door in about 4 hours! 

Here is a pic of my cross.

Hello camelneck;

That is a nice looking SMK.  When you get it, post a reverse photo.  And get a ribbon for it.  It is a really nice looking award with the correct ribbon.  It shouldn't be too hard to find.

[camelneck]

Hi Claudius,

Thanks for the nice comments.  Below is a photo of the reverse side, which I like even better than the front.  

As far as ribbons go, I currently have 2 combatant's style ribbons on order.  One is approximately 36mm wide and the other is only 30mm wide.  (BTW, this is one of my favorite ribbons.  I really like the color scheme.)  I agree with you.  The addition of a ribbon will definitely add some much needed color to this award.

I also have the SM Honor Medal for Merit in War, which is the enlisted man's version of the SMK.  (It is already on a combatant's ribbon.)   My SMHM is made of bronze.  IMO, the early bronze medals are more attractive than the zinc ones.  (I once saw a black SMHM for sale and it was supposedly made of iron.)   One of these days I would love to find a nice specimen of the SMK in bronze.  However, if I do find one in bronze, I still plan to hold onto this zinc SMK since the zinc ones are more scarce.

Cheers,

David

Edited March 11, 2017 by camelneck

[camelneck]

I had been looking for a Saxe Meiningen KVK for almost a year and had no luck.  Then last month I bought the zinc one (pictured in earlier posts) from ebay Germany.  I still had hopes of some day finding a nice bronze S-M KVK. 

I hadn't had my zinc cross for 2 weeks, and this morning, I stumbled on a nice bronze one on USA ebay with only about 4 hours left to go in the auction.. Can you believe I searched for over a year with no luck at all and then I find 2 of them within 2 weeks?.   Although this happened a whole lot sooner than I ever thought, I decided to enter a last minute bid on this auction.  Well, I got lucky again and won this auction with a 10 cent margin! 

So I now have a nice bronze SM KVK to go along with my zinc one. ::)   (I also have the bronze medal version of this award.)

Now I'm going to focus all of my effort on a silver Waldeck Merit Medal with swords!  

Here is a couple of photos of the latest conquest courtesy of ebay.  I hope to have it in 2 to 3 weeks.

Edited March 16, 2017 by camelneck

[Claudius]

thumbs up! 

The collection is really coming together.  The Waldeck medal hanging from swords is a worthy pursuit.

[camelneck]

1 hour ago, Claudius said:

thumbs up! 

The collection is really coming together.  The Waldeck medal hanging from swords is a worthy pursuit.

Thanks, Claudius.  Once I have the Waldeck medal I'll have all my EK2 Equivalents for enlisted men.      In addition to wartime merit and bravery awards, which are my favorite, I've also started expanding my Long Service (Military Dienstauszeichnung) collection.  I had originally stopped at 9,12,15, & 25yr for Prussia and 9,12,15,& 24yr for Bavaria.  But I recently added 10 more medals:  the 9,12, & 15yr for Hesse (Prussia on another ribbon), 9,12, & 15yr for Wurttemberg,  9, 12, & 15yr for Baden. and 9yr for Saxony.  I just need the 12yr & 15yr Saxony awards to complete all those.  Other long service awards, such as Saxe-Weimar and Mecklenburg, are much more difficult to find, but I'm sure I'll eventually start on those.  :).  I like to go for the easy ones first! 

David

Edited March 16, 2017 by camelneck