The Battle For The Falkland Islands.

[John]

I read in the Telegraph today that this country's MOD is descaling the Navy down to something the size of the Task Force sent to the Malvinas....
What a frightening thought... I do hope that in hostile times that this minor armada is going to be enough. This government wants everything on the cheap.
I think we're finished as the superpower we once were.
Remember Lord Cochrane , what a man! the man who created Chile.Genius.

[Nick]

Yes. Sadly the days that the Royal Navy ruled the waves are long gone. It seems that WW2 was the swan song for the RN dominance. The falklands showed how stretched we were back in the eighties. Now the fleet is almost non existant.

But go to San Diego or Richmond USA and there you will see what a fleet is, and that the ones not at sea !!

[John]

Yup its a shame. I always thought we would rule the waves. Bring back Cochrane, size was no problem for him , he saw it as a hinderance. animal

[Firefly]

I read that they're thinking of 'mothballing' one of our 'carriers' (in other words get rid of it by letting it rot in Portsmouth) They also want to considerably downsize the surface fleet. If they do this, there's no way we could defend the Falklands again. I think that they see the Navy's role in any future conflict as being part of some huge multi-national force, never having to operate independently.

Lets not forget, one of the main factors in Argentina's decision to invade the Falklands in the first place was the fact that Thatchers government wanted to get rid of Endurance (the ship permanantly assigned to 'protect' the islands), even though she annually only cost about two million pounds to keep there, a small price to pay. They saw how obviously little we valued the islands so thought we wouldn't put up a fight if they invaded. Of course we did put up a fight to save our soil, and NOT because it would win Thatcher the next election, oh no!!!!!!!

[John]

Yes , what are we going to do? We are a Defence force , masquerading as a Military Force.
We're finished as a superpower. We're much better off spending our taxes on diversity and illegal immigrants. ....

[Firefly]

I recently returned from a trip to Devon. I took a boat tour of Devonport dockyard (about the tenth time i've done so). What history! Then look at the 'navy' we have now..... flame

[Guest dimdem]

But go to San Diego or Richmond USA and there you will see what a fleet is, and that the ones not at sea !!

←

Norfolk, mate, not Richmond. Richmond is about a 2 hours drive inland. I have only the most tangential connection to the Navy, but I live about 2 miles south of the major base.

[Simon F]

You will find that Devonport dockyard is pretty much empty apart from refiting ships and ships under going training at FOST. This is because with a downsized Navy and reduced personel we are still trying to carry out (fully) our commitments World wide. I have been out of the Country for 21/2 out of the last 5 trying to accomplish this and I still pay full taxes

[Guest Rick Research]

You are not alone. It is proposed on THIS side of the pond to shut the Portsmouth, New Hampshire Naval Shipyard-- which has been operating since that... separation thing our then one country had with YOUR George (III)... AND the Groton, Connecticut Submarine Base.

This would, in effect, leave us with Norfolk in Virginia for the entire Atlantic side, one matching in California for the entire Pacific (which am not yet sure). And NO PLACE for submarines.

Rather the situation Tsarist Russia found itself in in... 1904.

MEANWHILE, while the world pours factories into Still Red China, and THEN pays them to send our own products back to us WHILE taking away our supply of oil in the manufacturing process (Japanese economy, 1938, anyone?)...

the geriatrics in the Forbidden City are building an ocean-going fleet, surface AND sub-surface.

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[Simon F]

"the geriatrics in the Forbidden City are building an ocean-going fleet, surface and sub-surface".

I am in total agreement with you Rick. As a Sonar/Operations man I have seen a huge shift in the emphasis of our training over recent years to encompass exactly this. Its kind of worrying what these guys are starting to put together.

[Bob Hunter]

Rick, there are two major submarine facilities. One on the east coast at Kings Bay, Georgia and the other at Silverdale, Washington (Seattle/Tacoma area).These facilities are primarily oriented toward the support of the fleet ballistic missle submarines. The fast attack boats can drop in lots of places.

[james Stewart]

Goverments are really great.

When there was "a review of the fleet" last year there was really very little left to review.

The ironic use of ships in the falklands , the assult ships , they were being sold to guess what country ? Argentina ......

Cut backs are fine , they save money but given the lack of equipment and make do and mend which cut backs bring about the eventual cost is to the man in the front line.

The body armour shortages - that cost lives .

Perhaps it seemed like a good idea at te time- when soldiers going abroad have to buy their own kit because of shortages or gear which is not up to it , time to think again about cuts and what they mean.

[Chris S]

I read in the Telegraph today that this country's MOD is descaling the Navy down to something the size of the Task Force sent to the Malvinas....

Delete Malvinas and Insert Falkland Island.

Unless you are Argentinian of course.

Chris

[james Stewart]

I read in the Telegraph today that this country's MOD is descaling the Navy down to something the size of the Task Force sent to the Malvinas....

Delete Malvinas and Insert Falkland Island.

Unless you are Argentinian of course.

Chris

The term " Ship taken up from Trade" has been used in a decent reference book written about the Royal Navy and the Falklands war.

The " Taken up from Trade" means what it says ..." a "Roll on Roll off" of ferry or container ship presed into service beacuse the RN did not the support or transport ships to do the job.

The Dunkirk spirit is quite fine but its a bit out of place in the modern world , even in the 1980's.

What other nation goes to war or leaves their armed services up the left like we do ?

There is some mind set which needs to be looked at - we no longer have a Fleet .

The man in the front line deserves better , time he got it.

Does anyone know the state of play with the new aircraft carrier which was to be built ?

Edited November 11, 2005 by james Stewart

[Chris S]

Whilst I agree with the above...it was wazzer going to war on the Canberra...a decent cabin...great cinema....even had washing machines...

and a lovely deck to run around...but yes, pollies do take the piss...

Chris

Edited November 11, 2005 by Chris S

[james Stewart]

Whilst I agree with the above...it was wazzer going to war on the Canberra...a decent cabin...great cinema....even had washing machines...

and a lovely deck to run around...but yes, pollies do take the piss...

Chris

Point taken Chris.

[Ardent]

The term " Ship taken up from Trade" has been used in a decent reference book written about the Royal Navy and the Falklands war.

The " Taken up from Trade" means what it says ..." a "Roll on Roll off" of ferry or container ship presed into service beacuse the RN did not the support or transport ships to do the job.

The Dunkirk spirit is quite fine but its a bit out of place in the modern world , even in the 1980's.

What other nation goes to war or leaves their armed services up the left like we do ?

There is some mind set which needs to be looked at - we no longer have a Fleet .

The man in the front line deserves better , time he got it.

Does anyone know the state of play with the new aircraft carrier which was to be built ?

STUFT vessels included much smaller craft such as tugs and "others" and the RN crews were issued with "HMS" cap tallys

[Bob]

Yes , what are we going to do? We are a Defence force , masquerading as a Military Force.

We're finished as a superpower. We're much better off spending our taxes on diversity and illegal immigrants. ....

come on, UK hasn't been a superpower for 100 years or more - at a certain point you've gotta start living within your means

[Chris S]

come on, UK hasn't been a superpower for 100 years or more - at a certain point you've gotta start living within your means

It was super enuff to stand up to Hitler when everyone else put their hands up and changed the course of history...erm let me see...something under 100 years ago.

Chris

[Tiger-pie]

Yes. Sadly the days that the Royal Navy ruled the waves are long gone. It seems that WW2 was the swan song for the RN dominance. The falklands showed how stretched we were back in the eighties. Now the fleet is almost non existant.

But go to San Diego or Richmond USA and there you will see what a fleet is, and that the ones not at sea !!

Many years ago while I was serving on HMAS Parramatta (a DE), we went alongside in Subic Bay when it was still kicking. I couldn't believe how much stuff they had. A medic gave us a tour over one of their helo carriers, and half the crew and Marine detatchment was on standby, Marines were in full kit on the helo deck fully booted and spurred, one day on, one day off, same same for the crew. Passed Enterprise on the way in and it was HUGE, that was the first carrier I had seen up close.

A couple of years later I was doing a RIMPAC and we stopped off in San Diego, and yes, I was blown away by dock atfer dock of FFG's. There was a Canadian Leander class ship, and I was absoulutely hammered after a big piss run ashore and got DE flashbacks thinking it was my old ship, the gangway staff politely turned me round and pointed me in the right direction back to HMAS Hobart.

Regards;

Johnsy

[DavidM]

..... We're much better off spending our taxes on diversity and illegal immigrants. ....

Hello

I thought that's what Tony and his cronies were already doing !!

[Chris Boonzaier]

so.... does Britain have enough ships for round 2?

[peter monahan]

And it may come to that! I heard today that the kelpies on 'los Malvinas' are holding a referendum to see whether they wish to remain under British control, presumably as a way of muting the Argentinian government's continued agitation to have the islands returned to them. Apparently having them back is actually in the Argentine constitution.

And speaking of money, what must it be costing Her Majesty's government to hold onto the Falklands? Immediately after the war the figure was literally millions of pounds per week, as the MoD flew in supplies daily from the Canaries. They could have bought the whole population villas on the Costa del Sol for what it cost in a year, but presumably prestige and self-determination for the islanders were seen as justifying the costs. Is that still the case?

[IrishGunner]

so.... does Britain have enough ships for round 2?

They barely had enough for round 1. And it's been announced that only 80 soldiers of the Para Regiment do jump training a year. No more parachute training. Going to have to slog in to Goose Green again.

[Laurence Strong]

The Argie's are not in any better shape. As witnessed by one of their ships sinking at the dock. Apparantley only 16 of 70 ships are in any condition to sail:

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2013/01/29/Argentina-mulls-shame-of-naval-decay/UPI-45941359455302/

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/world-armed-forces/mothballed-ara-trinidad-sinks-harbour-2-6338.html

Not sure how 'ol de Kirchner is going to get her troops ocver there if it comes to that......canoes I guess

Larry