Yugoslavia - Shinny IKOM orders

[new world]

Interesting discovery!

[paja]

Order of Merits for the People 3rd Class
Numbers over 100K, hallmarked (IKOM and rooster) narrower screw nuts.
Photos found in two ads I stumbled upon recently.

Edited November 12, 2017 by paja

[BalkanCollector]

You can almost see your reflection in them. 

[Daffy Duck]

Just observe the difference between two classes...

 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Daffy Duck

[paja]

It's been a while since my last post, let's continue. 

Order of Merits for the People 2nd class
Numbers 30K-50K, hallmarked, narrower screw nuts.
A few 3XXXX examples.

Edited November 24, 2017 by paja

[paja]

4XXXX

[paja]

Labor Order 2nd Class 
This one's particularly interesting. First of all is this type even suppose to exist?! I don't remember seeing IKOM screw type at all (not counting ZNB orders with replaced screws nuts, of course) and I'm pretty sure you won't find it in books. 
They hit the market couple of years ago, just a few examples got sold and then they disappeared. A few examples look very suspicious, apart from that "cheap" look some of the details are pretty bad and they feel "soft" if you know what I mean.

Edited November 24, 2017 by paja

[Eric Gaumann]

8316 is a rare bird.  The arrows you use point to look like, maybe, very poor manufacturing at the soldering point.  I imagine the main medal blank being coined by trained professionals and then sent along to some noob to attache the screw and was just too drunk to get it right.

The yellowish tint to the screwpost and the surrounding area raises questions as well.

[paja]

I'm very skeptical  because I really don't remember seeing them before at all, not a single one (not counting fakes and replaced screw nuts) and then all of a sudden a certain number appears in 2016 in a very short period of time.
In the beginning 2nd and 3rd classes were made only by ZIN/ZNB and IKOM made 1st classes. At some point IKOM also started producing lower classes, when exactly I don't know but it was later because they are with double horizontal needles. By the way IKOM was even remaking some of the older ZIN/ZNB screw types.
You can't find them in Sammler's base and I'm pretty sure no one mentioned them in the literature.
On top of everything their quality is not that great, especially for decorations which should be from the '40s-'50s. I'll make some comparisons tomorrow, it's getting late over here 
Since the only difference between 2nd and 3rd class is the gilt it would be logical to assume IKOM made both of them. Has anyone seen a 3rd class like that? I haven't.

[Drugo]

I'm reading, with some delay, this and other interesting discussions.

I would like to hear your opinion about this one, recently popped up on ebay. I'm puzzled by more than just the screw nuts.

 

Cheers,
Drugo

[BalkanCollector]

I've seen a few of those orders with two screw nuts but I'm not sure about their authenticity.

[paja]

I forgot to add those to the list, thanks for pointing it out, Drugo.
They also caught my eye. It's interesting that all of those shinny ones have 23XX number and their quantity on the market certainly raises some suspicions, I've seen at least of them 15 so far. And like you said it's not just the screw nuts, they also have that "shinny" look and couple of other details are different compared to orders with lower numbers.

[srdjanoz]

I think that the screws are new. As I remember this model was produced by IKOM and had screws from pre WWII production of Kingdom of Yugoslavia badges, made by Knaus Zagreb.

Look at the link http://www.shopbulgaria.com/products/6182/yugoslavia-order-of-labour-1st-class-rare-1st-emission.html and tell me what you think.

[paja]

I've seen only a few orders with those pre-WW2 type of screw nuts, one of our forum members has a piece like that in his collection. 
Others have so-called "butterfly" screw nuts and there's a certain number of remade ones with needles.
That piece from shopbulgaria also has 23XX number and it's was the first one I saw with butterfly screw nuts, perhaps someone replaced them.

[Eric Gaumann]

This is on US ebay at the moment as well.  Close numbers.

[paja]

And again 23XX...

[Eric Gaumann]

Interesting.  New in pouch.

Seller's description: "Order of the Meritorious Service to the Nation with Silver Rays (Second Degree), 1961-1991, in solid silver (.800 fine, 33 grams approximately), partially gilded, 41mm, silver hallmarked and maker marked IKOM Zagreb, unissued, still in cellophane bag as was delivered by the manufacturer, with two related ribbon bars. "

[paja]

6 hours ago, Eric Gaumann said:

 1961-1991

Perhaps up to 1961, definitely not correct period.

6 hours ago, Eric Gaumann said:

Still in cellophane bag as was delivered by the manufacturer, with two related ribbon bars.

Delivered in cellophane bag? To whom? Two ribbon bars? 

[Eric Gaumann]

I just included the seller's description. I don't know if it's actually the manufacturer who did that or what.

[paja]

I know, I was just asking questions. Screw on that one is also yellowish.

[Eric Gaumann]

This just popped up.  I know it doesn't qualify as "shinny" for this thread but it does have that 'shiny' coating on the reverse that irks me for some reason.

Note it is hallmarked; I used to think these were tombak, and it's a 6 torch version.  When did the torches change from 5 to 6, 1963?

[BalkanCollector]

Nothing wrong with that one. Here's my 6 torch piece awarded in 1979 to a technical Major for comparison.

Five to six torch was indeed introduced in 1963. They've made big supplies of orders so five torch versions were still awarded well after 1963. Here are a few examples from my collection:

- 5 torch 3rd class awarded in 1967 to a technical Lieutenant, 4 years after the change was introduced

-5 torch 2nd class awarded in 1971 to an infantry Major, 8 years after the change was introduced!

You can see my orders in this thread post from #96 to #98:

 

 

 

[Eric Gaumann]

Not necessarily new, shinny and suspicious.... but I found a nice example of the shiny reverse 'coating' which I consider some sort of preservative lacquer.  Notice how it seems to be brushed on; you can see what seem to be brush marks where it was applied.  And also how reflective it is; in two of the images you can see the reflection of the underside of the pin.

 

[BalkanCollector]

A common sight on this order. Here's an example from my collection. You can also see fingerprints on it.

[BalkanCollector]

On 30/01/2018 at 13:48, Eric Gaumann said:

Interesting.  New in pouch.

Seller's description: "Order of the Meritorious Service to the Nation with Silver Rays (Second Degree), 1961-1991, in solid silver (.800 fine, 33 grams approximately), partially gilded, 41mm, silver hallmarked and maker marked IKOM Zagreb, unissued, still in cellophane bag as was delivered by the manufacturer, with two related ribbon bars. "

Recently I had an opportunity of buying an exact example as you've shown. It also came in a cellophane bag and with two ribbons. I met the seller in person and I held the item in my hands. It doesn't look that shiny in person to be honest. He claims that he bought 12kg of this order directly from IKOM back in the 90's. I don't see why would he lie about that since he is one of the biggest collectors I've met in person. Here is his site, he's got some impressive stuff. http://www.eu-militaria.com/

He also said that he bought experimental pieces from IKOM. For example Order of Brotherhood and Unity 3rd class which was never actually used since there were only two classes of this order, Order of War Flag etc. The photos of those experimental orders which you can see around the internet are actually his. Unfortunately he sold those orders years ago to someone in Russia if I'm not mistaken.

Here are the seller's photos: